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-   -   IV Update: Text of the 'outsourcing bill' (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/25288-iv-update-text-of-the-outsourcing-bill.html)

senthil1 04-27-2009 03:33 AM

My analysis if the law is passed in the current form

1. Non displacement provision will delay H1b process. But innovation will not be impacted as best companies Like Google, Microsoft and start up companies will not have a problem in proving that skills are not available in the market.

2. When a company lays off they cannot recruit for 6 months. But a company is laying off people they will hardly recruit for 6 months. Generally when they do less than 5% of staff that will not come under layoff provision and still they can recruit H1b. So only a few positions will be impacted.

3. 50% rule may make many bodyshoppers and Top indian companies force to recruit US Citizens and medium non public companies may split into many companies. Some H1b dependent small and medium companies may go out of business. It will have huge short term impact on H1b aspirants but they will adjust quickly to change their jobs.

4. More powers for DOL will make the companies to follow the law and reduction of abuse

5. Of course the restrictions will make less number of jobs for H1bs and L1s. But when economy improves demand will increase so that H1b cap will be reached inspite of all these restrictions. I strongly believe that system will adjust the new restrictions similar to TARP bill but short term very high impact. But that can be minimised by applying all those restrictions only for new H1bs. Generally more restrictions the persons qualifying will be best and bright and also wages for H1bs,L1s also will increase with improved working conditions.

6. If pro immigrants like IV can negotiate to include Recapture or increase GC cap. But that depends on chance of passing the bill. If IV and other pro immigrants lobby and block the bill then that makes sense. But if the bill gets bi partisan support then it may be wise to take different approach. This bill may be like 2007 and may not be considered at all.

I did not read the bill completely but my views were based on some major provisions and also I do not believe the conspiracy thoeries that they want to remove the H1b program first then EAD then GCs. But it is a protection for US citizens. I am not arguing that the protection is right or wrong but most countries in the world are trying to do that when recession. India has 100% protection for jobs for Indian citizens

eb3_2004 04-27-2009 08:39 AM

Nice Article...Right Time...
 
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...od=rss_WSJBlog

gc28262 04-27-2009 11:01 AM

Don't see new H1B proposal turning into an Act: NASSCOM
 
http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/ne...nasscom/395009

gc28262 04-27-2009 11:02 AM

US's new H1-B proposal anti-trade: NASSCOM
 
http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/n...al=mkt_topnews

gc_on_demand 04-27-2009 11:37 AM

I don't think this bill will pass as standalone
 
Picture will become more clear in MAY when Pres. OBAMA will announce his plan for CIR 2009. If he does then chances of this bill going anywhere is very minimal. Also don't forget that this is just in senate. Same version needs to be pass in House. Amendment to Stimulas package regarding Financial Company cannot hire h1b was relatively easy. It doesnot need bill go through all sub committee and other lengthy process.

I think we should focus only on our main agenda. Green Card. We can closly watch this bill. Even if it advance to subcommitte in Senate ( Hearing and all ) then we can start move on it otherwise we will waste so much of our manpower and energy.

Wouldn't it be their statergy to divert / divide people on H1b / L1b issue so we loose our energy by the time CIR 2009 planing going on. And they can easily add some more real actions in CIR ?

ganguteli 04-27-2009 12:34 PM

IV should work hard on defeating this bill. It will send a clear message to anti-immigrants even if the bill does not pass.
Just because we want our green cards does not mean we forget people on H1b or future H1Bs
Anti-immigrants do not differentiate us based on H1, L1, EAD, PD, ROW, EB3 etc. The bill is aimed at throwing all immigrants out. Period.

ganguteli 04-27-2009 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsLife (Post 337050)
Agreed that this will throw out all the crappy body shoppers. This is what we need in future not to make it difficult for future h1-b or other people. We should infact support this bill as this will weed out many Indian Body shoppers and benefit everyone.

This is nothing new but most of it is just implementing what is already in low. Thats my take on it.

You are talking like an anti-immigrant. Are you one of those on this forum?

Just because you are out of H1B are now on EAD, you want nobody else to come in.

Did you not yourself come through a consulting company? Did you not use a consulting company to get H1 for your wife or get a substitute labor? If you lose your job today you will be going to these consulting companies only to beg for a job. Once you get your green card you will be starting one yourself if you are smart. So let us see this as an anti-immigrant bill.

weasley 04-27-2009 01:16 PM

Which planet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by senthil1 (Post 337002)
India has 100% protection for jobs for Indian citizens

Did you mean the India on Earth? :D I dont think people laid off from IT companies in India even get severence.

ganguteli 04-27-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weasley (Post 337057)
Did you mean the India on Earth? :D I dont think people laid off from IT companies in India even get severence.

Senthil1 is an anti-immigrant and should have been banned long time back.

jelo 04-27-2009 01:58 PM

Please do the same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsLife (Post 337065)
I am not talking like anyone, just expressing my views. Please refrain your self from pointing fingers to any member. I did not come through a consulting company, hope this makes you happy.

mr Ganduteli please dont make comments on either visa status, my wife or any substitute labor as none of them apply to my case.


likewise please do not generalize any working type or business which is legally allowed to operate in US just because you are not working for that.
Please restrain from posting anything negative which will not help anybody.

vbkris77 04-27-2009 02:22 PM

Question???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by walking_dude (Post 336985)
Newer version is - as should've been expected - more protectionist than before.

1) It prohibits H1B workers from working in contract positions.There is a redundant provision for the L1 visa as well (there is already a law which does this for L1). However it doesn't prevent American companies from keeping these contract workers in India or elsewhere and co-ordinate the work through web-conferencing, video conferencing, VPN/VNC etc.

The day this law passes will be a great day for Outsourcing, and a sad day for America.

Which part of the text got you to this summary? Am I missing something? I don't see H1B ban for contract positions anywhere.. Pls. clarify.. Thanks for your analysis..

a.j.2048 04-27-2009 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 337081)
I dont have problems with genuine L1s who wants to settle down and apply GC. But 90% of L1s, just come for 1-2 years, take away jobs to India, drive down wages and never interested in settling down

Don't you realize that this is the preferred policy of a large part of the US establishment? The anti-immigration activists are concerned about demographic change and are thus okay with jobs being sent abroad in exchange for limited permanent immigration.

add78 04-27-2009 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappu (Post 336967)
Please stop H1 Vs L1 discussion and do not support those who aim to divide this community on various visa types, categories, nationalities etc. Any further attempts by any member in this direction will result in ban. We would appreciate if you read the bill posted by IV and provide some analysis on its content on this thread.

Pappu,

I went through the text of the new bill vis-a-vis current INA and compared the old and the proposed act. Here are the findings -

Section 101 - This spells disaster for all H1Bs in consulting companies (as FT or C2C) -

by striking clause (ii) of sub-paragraph (E) of the section 212(n)(1), and then adding the new clauses under (F), they are PROHIBITING placement of H1B employees on another employer's site, period. This will affect NOT ONLY pure staffing (desi or non-desi) companies who place their W-2 H1B employees at client site, BUT ALSO big consulting companies like IBM/ACCENTURE/DELOITTE et al. No placement/leasing/outsourcing/contracting for services or otherwise at another employer, period - UNLESS a waiver is obtained, which will mean every company will need to obtain a waiver in order to do so, EFFECTIVELY ENDING ANY CONSULTING BY H1B.

Section 102 - This spells disaster for all companies who's H1B+L1 > 50% total employees

by inserting two new clauses (H) and (I) in section 212(n)(1), it prohibits H1B only or H1B preferred advertisements and prevents any company that employees more than 50 employees to submit NEW H1B/L1 application IF the total number of H1B and L1 employees exceeds 50% of its total employees. It also requires ANY company employing even a single H1B employee to submit W-2s of IRS. This affects ALL Indian IT companies like TCS/WIPRO/INFOSYS/COGNIZANT et al.

remaining sections (103 onwards) are more about enforcement and investigations.

Section 201 - This spells disaster for companies that bring in workers on L visas

This also affects ALL Indian IT companies like TCS/WIPRO/INFOSYS/COGNIZANT et al. AS WELL AS some other companies that might bring in workers from their home country.

IN SUMMARY -

In the SHORT RUN, this hurts outsourcing industry, as they need more time, and H1B/L1 resources on site to transition the work offshore, but I agree that in the LONG RUN, it will GREATLY BENEFIT AND INCREASE OUTSOURCING.

That will indeed be a sad day. Grassley and Durbin are trying to cut the branch they are sitting on. :) This will have the exact opposite of their desired effect.

Hope this helps.

tammigaw 04-27-2009 03:53 PM

Relax guys ..This bill is not going anywhere
 
Guys,

with the measures that listed in the bill , i am sure it is going to face same fate as it had before in 07 .I read some where that this bill did not gain support as Oracle is against it .

This bill is against practices that is done mainly by Indian Outsourcing companies, as will impact all the american organizations in longer run (if a company outsource its operations ,they need to have a Permanent local hire to shadow the resource).

But even in the worst case even if bill gets tabled ,it will not gain support in the current form .

But IV Stand is Correct on this issue , not to support this bill as it may hamper our immigrant interest in longer run.

vbkris77 04-27-2009 04:14 PM

Waivers??
 
Below is the text for Waivers.. My understanding is that if end Client gives a letter to DOL stating that they don't layoffs due to this H1B and it is a temp. labor requirement etc.. It is still harsh considering anti-immigration climate.. What is feared asked in a Visa interview will be asked by DOL for extensions. So, H1B can't be on an auto-pilot mode..


``(I) the employer with whom the H-1B nonimmigrant would be placed has not displaced, and does not intend to displace, a United States worker employed by the employer within the period beginning 180 days before and ending 180 days after the date of the placement of the nonimmigrant with the employer;

``(II) the H-1B nonimmigrant will not be controlled and supervised principally by the employer with whom the H-1B nonimmigrant would be placed; and

``(III) the placement of the H-1B nonimmigrant is not essentially an arrangement to provide labor for hire for the employer with whom the H-1B nonimmigrant will be placed.



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