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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vbkris77 View Post
Below is the text for Waivers.. My understanding is that if end Client gives a letter to DOL stating that they don't layoffs due to this H1B and it is a temp. labor requirement etc.. It is still harsh considering anti-immigration climate.. What is feared asked in a Visa interview will be asked by DOL for extensions. So, H1B can't be on an auto-pilot mode..


``(I) the employer with whom the H-1B nonimmigrant would be placed has not displaced, and does not intend to displace, a United States worker employed by the employer within the period beginning 180 days before and ending 180 days after the date of the placement of the nonimmigrant with the employer;

``(II) the H-1B nonimmigrant will not be controlled and supervised principally by the employer with whom the H-1B nonimmigrant would be placed; and

``(III) the placement of the H-1B nonimmigrant is not essentially an arrangement to provide labor for hire for the employer with whom the H-1B nonimmigrant will be placed.

the big consulting companies (IBM/Deloitte/Accenture et al) will try to get a waiver by showing the 3 conditions above - however, they need to do so every time a current assignment for their H1B employer ends and they need to place them on a new assignment / client. At that time they need to go through the waiver again, to determine whether the end client has had any layoffs in the last 180 days.

In short this bill is a disaster for ALL CONSULTING companies that have a large H1B population.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:53 PM
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Default Will this bill affect current working consultants?

I read through the bill but don't quite understand...if I am working for a client on H1B, will I need to stop working as soon as this bill takes effect? or it only applies to newly applied H1B's (or extension/transfer)?
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:22 PM
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Can somebody please post a link to the 'original' H-1B Employer Application Requirements document from USICS (not interim docs) ?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jchan View Post
I read through the bill but don't quite understand...if I am working for a client on H1B, will I need to stop working as soon as this bill takes effect? or it only applies to newly applied H1B's (or extension/transfer)?
Yes, that is my understanding at this point based on the language . As soon as the bill goes into effect, you will need to stop working at the client site if the bill passes in its current form AND you are working as a FT employee (w-2) of a mere placement company (aka agent or desi consulting). If you are an FT employee of big consulting company then until they get waiver for you AND your current client proves that no layoffs were done at the client site in the last 180 days, you will need to stop working.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qasleuth View Post
Can somebody please post a link to the 'original' H-1B Employer Application Requirements document from USICS (not interim docs) ?
A google search of the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1990 should land you what you seek.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by add78 View Post
Yes, that is my understanding at this point based on the language . As soon as the bill goes into effect, you will need to stop working at the client site if the bill passes in its current form AND you are working as a FT employee (w-2) of a mere placement company (aka agent or desi consulting). If you are an FT employee of big consulting company then until they get waiver for you AND your current client proves that no layoffs were done at the client site in the last 180 days, you will need to stop working.
I read the text again, and found that text is under 'Sub Title A - H1B Application Requirement', does that mean the new application has to meet the requirement but existing H1B holders are allowed to work until the end of their I-94 date? It would create a turmoil to stop all H1B contractor all in a sudden.

Anyway, let's hope the professional analysis from Pappu and attorney come out early
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:03 PM
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It's not just 180 daysd before the application, it also includes 180 days AFTER the application.

This is the current section on 90 days period


(E)(i) In the case of an application described in clause (ii),
the employer did not displace and will not displace a United States
worker (as defined in paragraph (4)) employed by the employer within
the period beginning 90 days before and ending 90 days after the
date of filing of any visa petition
supported by the application.

And the ammendment in the new bill

(1) NONDISPLACEMENT.--Subparagraph (E) of such section 212(n)(1) is amended--
(A) in clause (i)--
(i) by striking ``90 days'' both places it appears and inserting ``180 days'';


Quote:
Originally Posted by add78 View Post
Yes, that is my understanding at this point based on the language . As soon as the bill goes into effect, you will need to stop working at the client site if the bill passes in its current form AND you are working as a FT employee (w-2) of a mere placement company (aka agent or desi consulting). If you are an FT employee of big consulting company then until they get waiver for you AND your current client proves that no layoffs were done at the client site in the last 180 days, you will need to stop working.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 12:28 AM
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For me as i did similar analysis during CIR 2007 the text of the bill looks very much similar. They had the same issues on H1/L1 except now fraud prevention... Not sure where it goes... Any idea Pappu, PPL seem to be still interested in debating H1Vs L1 etc... For sure more offshoring...

Quote:
Originally Posted by add78 View Post
Pappu,

I went through the text of the new bill vis-a-vis current INA and compared the old and the proposed act. Here are the findings -

Section 101 - This spells disaster for all H1Bs in consulting companies (as FT or C2C) -

by striking clause (ii) of sub-paragraph (E) of the section 212(n)(1), and then adding the new clauses under (F), they are PROHIBITING placement of H1B employees on another employer's site, period. This will affect NOT ONLY pure staffing (desi or non-desi) companies who place their W-2 H1B employees at client site, BUT ALSO big consulting companies like IBM/ACCENTURE/DELOITTE et al. No placement/leasing/outsourcing/contracting for services or otherwise at another employer, period - UNLESS a waiver is obtained, which will mean every company will need to obtain a waiver in order to do so, EFFECTIVELY ENDING ANY CONSULTING BY H1B.

Section 102 - This spells disaster for all companies who's H1B+L1 > 50% total employees

by inserting two new clauses (H) and (I) in section 212(n)(1), it prohibits H1B only or H1B preferred advertisements and prevents any company that employees more than 50 employees to submit NEW H1B/L1 application IF the total number of H1B and L1 employees exceeds 50% of its total employees. It also requires ANY company employing even a single H1B employee to submit W-2s of IRS. This affects ALL Indian IT companies like TCS/WIPRO/INFOSYS/COGNIZANT et al.

remaining sections (103 onwards) are more about enforcement and investigations.

Section 201 - This spells disaster for companies that bring in workers on L visas

This also affects ALL Indian IT companies like TCS/WIPRO/INFOSYS/COGNIZANT et al. AS WELL AS some other companies that might bring in workers from their home country.

IN SUMMARY -

In the SHORT RUN, this hurts outsourcing industry, as they need more time, and H1B/L1 resources on site to transition the work offshore, but I agree that in the LONG RUN, it will GREATLY BENEFIT AND INCREASE OUTSOURCING.

That will indeed be a sad day. Grassley and Durbin are trying to cut the branch they are sitting on. This will have the exact opposite of their desired effect.

Hope this helps.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsLife View Post
Agreed that this will throw out all the crappy body shoppers. This is what we need in future not to make it difficult for future h1-b or other people. We should infact support this bill as this will weed out many Indian Body shoppers and benefit everyone.

This is nothing new but most of it is just implementing what is already in low. Thats my take on it.
Throw your GC and become H1...then you will understand the meaning of this bill
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 10:19 AM
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Any idea when this is going for voting?
Democrats are supporting this or not?
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walking_dude View Post
It's not just 180 daysd before the application, it also includes 180 days AFTER the application.

This is the current section on 90 days period


(E)(i) In the case of an application described in clause (ii),
the employer did not displace and will not displace a United States
worker (as defined in paragraph (4)) employed by the employer within
the period beginning 90 days before and ending 90 days after the
date of filing of any visa petition
supported by the application.

And the ammendment in the new bill

(1) NONDISPLACEMENT.--Subparagraph (E) of such section 212(n)(1) is amended--
(A) in clause (i)--
(i) by striking ``90 days'' both places it appears and inserting ``180 days'';
Yes, I got that already, I did not specify in my message as it is a "after the fact" requirement, i.e. I am not undermining its potential disastrous ramifications of having to force the layoff of already hired H1B if any other layoffs occur post the H1B hire, I was simply trying to focus my analysis on the impact BEFORE the H1B employee even be hired by employer or placed at client site. But yes, this applies AFTER 180 days as well.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchan View Post
I read the text again, and found that text is under 'Sub Title A - H1B Application Requirement', does that mean the new application has to meet the requirement but existing H1B holders are allowed to work until the end of their I-94 date? It would create a turmoil to stop all H1B contractor all in a sudden.

Anyway, let's hope the professional analysis from Pappu and attorney come out early
That is the problem with us isn't it? We try to first figure out if something that is a potentially bad legislation applies to ME, MYSELF and MY OWN SELF first, if not then we simply shrug, bury our heads in the sand and do not act for the greater good of the community. That is precisely what happened 2 months ago when Grassley/Durbin went after the smaller consulting (staffing) companies and when those companies tried to garner support from the biggies, there was no help. The big consulting companies including the outsourcing companies thought that the demise of staffing/consulting companies would land them more business and the displaced H1Bs, not realizing it was just the first step of the Antis in their direction as well. Well now, everybody has been given the jolt of electricity.

Sadly it should not have come to this point. We always bicker and fight among ourselves (I am NOT picking on you or saying you are at fault) i.e. EB2 vs EB3, H1B vs L1, US Masters vs non-Masters, H1B with FT jobs vs H1B in C2C, staffing/consulting companies vs Big Consulting, Outsourcing companies vs non-outsourcing etc etc... the list goes on.

We, and I mean everybody I just described above, need to have the foresight to see every "divide and conquer" attack / technique that the antis throw at us and look past our differences and unite under IV's umbrella. Sigh..
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Last edited by add78; 04-28-2009 at 11:00 AM.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 10:56 AM
ganguteli
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Default From your posts you look like an anti-immigrant

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsLife View Post
I dont generalize the L1 abuse. This is how it works L1 is meant for company transfer and not to work on consulting positions across United states. Please read the law completely before you know what you are talking about. These L1 people come through intra company transfer and work on $10/ hr jobs undermining the folks on H1-b and L1's too. I dont know about your case and i dont want to comment on it too but do see my point. Please just dont oppose because you have to.

L1's working for consulting should be stopped , it should be meant as intra company transfer for learning and implementation of company projects and not to work at client sites. Thats the law my friend.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by polapragada View Post
Any idea when this is going for voting?
Democrats are supporting this or not?
I would strongly suggest everyone to acquaint himself/herself with the legislative process and how a bill moves through different phases / steps before it becomes a law. You can find many postings documenting the process.

Right now it is just introduced in the senate. The problem for us is that Sen Durbin is Democratic Whip (i.e. Assistant Majority Leader) which gives him tremendous influence over garnering votes and referring which legislation to consider to the Majority Leader (Harry Reid in the Senate). Ultimately Reid decides which legislation get priority consideration. The fact that Grassley is a Republican and is close to the Minority Leader (I think) does not help us either. We will monitor the progress of the bill.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by qasleuth View Post
Can somebody please post a link to the 'original' H-1B Employer Application Requirements document from USICS (not interim docs) ?

I believe this is the one you are looking for!?

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/h-1b.cfm
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