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-   IV Agenda and Legislative Updates (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/)
-   -   IV Update: Text of the 'outsourcing bill' (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/25288-iv-update-text-of-the-outsourcing-bill.html)

pappu 04-24-2009 08:54 PM

IV Update: Text of the 'outsourcing bill'
 
Here is the Durbin Grassley outsourcing bill. We will be providing our analysis soon

http://immigrationvoice.org/media/fo...urcingbill.pdf

ilikekilo 04-24-2009 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappu (Post 336697)
Here is the Durbin Grassley outsourcing bill. We will be providing our analysis soon

http://immigrationvoice.org/media/fo...urcingbill.pdf


Thanks for the update...looks like they are trying to make it harder for the companies..

ilikekilo 04-25-2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336760)
High time this bill is passed. Too much fraud in L1s and H1s.Existing H1s dont have jobs and our green cards pending and no hope when it will come. They should really make L1 very very hard because I work in a huge wireless company where they get L1s from companies like TCS and they work 15 hours a day with $25 billing rate, because of which all contractors and permenant workes (on H1, GC, EAD etc) are being laid off

I wish this bill passes with full effect


Your emotions are understood as we are all in the same boat towards a common goal. Please refrain from making comments that give a perception to people who read it as if the whole system is rotten, it doesnt help yours and our cause..thanks for your understanding.:).. and lastly please dont name companies either. Its just doesnt help.

morchu 04-25-2009 10:10 PM

Understood. Now you want all H1 L1 B1 everything to be stopped. So lets vote only for EAD/AP/GC till you get your GC. After that US should stop GC also, right? (but ofcourse, naturalization still should remain open for a few more years).

If one person can work for your job at $8/hr, and you are charging $100/hr, market would adjust itself to $8/hr (for a moment forget about who does this $8/hr, it can be a high-school kid, or anybody).The only reason why somebody blames that $8/hr kid for loosing his job is because he "thinks" he is "superior" to that kid. There are many situations where companies decide to retain "fresh college grads" and layoff "senior experienced" persons, to save money.

Don't take me wrong, but I also think the L1 is mis-used a bit. But I personally think the mis-usage comes from other factors (like H1 unavailability, employer prefer L1 because employee cannot change to another employer in L1, other H1 restrictions) etc..

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336760)
.....I wish this bill passes with full effect


snathan 04-26-2009 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morchu (Post 336808)
Understood. Now you want all H1 L1 B1 everything to be stopped. So lets vote only for EAD/AP/GC till you get your GC. After that US should stop GC also, right? (but ofcourse, naturalization still should remain open for a few more years).

If one person can work for your job at $8/hr, and you are charging $100/hr, market would adjust itself to $8/hr (for a moment forget about who does this $8/hr, it can be a high-school kid, or anybody).The only reason why somebody blames that $8/hr kid for loosing his job is because he "thinks" he is "superior" to that kid. There are many situations where companies decide to retain "fresh college grads" and layoff "senior experienced" persons, to save money.

Don't take me wrong, but I also think the L1 is mis-used a bit. But I personally think the mis-usage comes from other factors (like H1 unavailability, employer prefer L1 because employee cannot change to another employer in L1, other H1 restrictions) etc..

Not a bit. If you want I can give you a plenty... L1 is for intercompany transfer. But So far I have seen companies put people only at the client place and their salary is starting at 32K and they are put up at extended staty, asked to share the cab or car. So let me know if you want and I can directly let you talk to those guys.

Though I am not supporting this bill, we have to accept the face there is no numerical limit on L1 and no knows how many L1 are getting approvd every year. L1 guys can not change their employer, they dont have any idea about their benifts. I know a company which have a policy that the employee can not have US insurance untill he is here for six months. They bought the cheap indian insurance and no doctor is accepting here. So the employee needs to pay from his pocket and need to collect it later. Because of this guys are not even going to the hospital.

Yes, you can work for $8 but there is something called law. I have personelly checked their labor which states 55K. But they are paid only 32K.

So our common goal is to fix the broken system, remove the employer's undue advantage over the employee. No matter if they are MNC or desi consulting companies. Why the employee is tied to the employer when there is the need/demand for the skill set. Thats the only thing which is driving down the wages.

vbkris77 04-26-2009 02:36 AM

Lets focus
 
Lets move on and focus on this main topic...

Here are my observations.. Correct me if I am wrong..

1. L1 option for IT is essentially killed

2. Small IT companies will limit the headcount to 50 per company. It doesn't cost much to have more than one company. So no major changes to H1B Desi companies.

3. Most of the big American companies will not offer new H1B with 180 days, since most of them would have had layoffs.

4. Most IT companies will start spending a lot on lawyers. So they will be rich. There will be lot of audits.

5. Companies will complete PERM and I140 before getting a guy onsite, only if people are really interested in coming to USA any longer.

6. Need more clarity on where H1B outsourcing will be stopped...

gc28262 04-26-2009 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbkris77 (Post 336825)
Lets move on and focus on this main topic...

Here are my observations.. Correct me if I am wrong..

1. L1 option for IT is essentially killed

2. Small IT companies will limit the headcount to 50 per company. It doesn't cost much to have more than one company. So no major changes to H1B Desi companies.

3. Most of the big American companies will not offer new H1B with 180 days, since most of them would have had layoffs.

4. Most IT companies will start spending a lot on lawyers. So they will be rich. There will be lot of audits.

5. Companies will complete PERM and I140 before getting a guy onsite, only if people are really interested in coming to USA any longer.

6. Need more clarity on where H1B outsourcing will be stopped...

Good recap. This bill is not about liberating employees. This bill is to kill H1Bs and L1s irrespective of whether the company is a consulting company or a direct employer.

Net result ? more outsourcing. Big outsourcing firms have enough experienced employees on their payroll to do outsourcing effectively.

If this bill passes, it will be a shameful day for USA.

kcforgc 04-26-2009 03:30 AM

What are the changes to H1b?
 
I looked at the pdf briefly but did not completely understand what changes are proposed for H1b in the bill.

Below are some per my understanding. And also below are questions.

1) Now it looks like H1b requires PERM type recruitment. Is it only for new H1bs or also for extensions & Transfers?? Most of us are already in our 7th/8th year extensions and some others are in 9th & 10th years. It will impact further extensions or transfers and will jeopardize our GC process.

2) These changes would unnecessarily scare away genuine employers as it is like a mini- GC perm process. They may settle for an unqualified or less qualified citizen instead of hiring a highly qualified H1b suitable for the job.

morchu 04-26-2009 05:34 AM

Lets not support this bill guys. The right way to stop mis-use of H1 or L1 by companies is to make it a free market for the "employees" in visa. Let them be able to work for "any employer". Do you think the L1 guy will let him be abused, if he was allowed to change employers easily. Lets not close the doors for others, lets have an open mind to for competition and equal human treatment. Also lets see what is best for USA.

Putting more restrictions on employer is never effective. Abusing employers will always find the loopholes, and the legitimate employers will be scared away. The effective way is to get the "visa employees" more freedom.

arnab221 04-26-2009 05:56 AM

Outsourcing cannot be stopped by protectionism
 
Outsourcing cannot be stopped with these nonsense bills . Outsourcing can only be stopped when the US market relizes that it is highly overpriced for the same job that is doine abroad for a far lesser price and adjusts accordingly . Every work has a value associated to it and the price needs to be paid according to the value of the work and not the place it is done ( India or the US )


Example
*******
Lets take a example of a barber. The barber in India charges about Rs 30 ( 45 Cents ) whereas for the same task a barber in US charges about $ 15 ( Rs750 ) . Now the question is , is the barber in the US more skilled than the barber in India , or the Barber in US doing a job if much more value than the barber in India . The reason that the barber is charging more is simply because of the virtue of the fact that he is in the USA and nothig else .

In the same way the Software Consultants ( Indian or Americans ) who are getting paid more in the USA , pleas remember that the reason for the extra salkary is not because we are more skilled or do better value work . It is simply because of the virtue of being located in the USA and nothing else .

GM Ford and Chrysler
*******************
Now instead of frowing and looking down upon the people who do the same value work for less , we need to be appreciative of their competative spirit . They work hard , so the same work , get paid less and compete with us . Whats not to appreciate of that ? Is this not the way the American dream is made . These senators instead if introducing a price correction in the US to bring down the rate of work in US are trying protectionism tactics to prevent people from selling the same work at alower rate . The result will be what hapenned to GM and Ford and Chrysler .These contractors that these companies negotiated with their staff has resulted in their downfall . GM staff drinks beer outside a closed plant and still the UAW contract entiles them to $94.00 per hour . GM and ford though that American consumers will protect them from Honda and Toyota which had much cheaper workes ( on flexible rates ) and made much better cars . The Durbin Grassley amendment will result in the same fate to other american compoanies that happenned to GM and Ford .

Caliber 04-26-2009 11:22 AM

I agree
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by snathan (Post 336823)
Not a bit. If you want I can give you a plenty... L1 is for intercompany transfer. But So far I have seen companies put people only at the client place and their salary is starting at 32K and they are put up at extended staty, asked to share the cab or car. So let me know if you want and I can directly let you talk to those guys.

Yes, you can work for $8 but there is something called law. I have personelly checked their labor which states 55K. But they are paid only 32K.

So our common goal is to fix the broken system, remove the employer's undue advantage over the employee. No matter if they are MNC or desi consulting companies. Why the employee is tied to the employer when there is the need/demand for the skill set. Thats the only thing which is driving down the wages.

I fully agree with this. L1's being placed at Client's place is ILLEGAL. I have several proof's of this. TCS, Infy, CTS and LT do FAVOR their employees with a gift of filing in EB1 because these guys WOULD not complain to any one what they are paid and their benefits.

Any one want proof's?

ganguteli 04-26-2009 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336853)
Lets do overself a favor by supporting this bill esp on L1s

Our goal is faster GC processing and not supporting L1s who will steal jobs from us

Someone please take action against this anti-immigrant.
Anti-immigrants are coming to the site and posting in favor of this bill and abusing H1B or L1s or pitching against each other. Let us be careful in responding to such posts.

pappu 04-26-2009 01:45 PM

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...423_219068.htm

But advocates for skilled immigrants—many of whom remain stuck for years on H-1Bs waiting in the long queue for permanent residency—worry that the bill is a political maneuver rather than an earnest effort at reform. Aman Kapoor, president of the skilled immigrant advocate group Immigration Voice, says that a more effective bill would ensure H-1B visa workers are on a level playing field with U.S. workers. "Skilled immigrants on H-1Bs don't get the same rights and protections as everyone else," says Kapoor. "So wouldn't the solution be to empower and enable the skilled immigrants on H-1Bs such that…skilled immigrants on H-1s have adequate protections so that no one can take advantage of [them]? But no one wants to talk about protections for skilled immigrants."

legal_alien_007 04-26-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336824)
You are right. L1s are paid shit and are not given proper insurance. Once L1 guy got sick and he went to Doctor and pharmacy, Pharmacy charged him $250 coz they wont take the shitty insurance (some Indian Insurance), L1s are being absued a lot

TNMan,
I feel sorry for your situation and you seem to be under a lot of stress. However lets show some civility in our discourse and not make this a blame game.

When an american loses his job, he feels exactly the same way as you do, except that he doesn't really distinguish a H1-B from an L1.

Replace 'L1' with 'H1-B' in your comments and see how they look,

""You are right. H1-Bs are paid shit and are not given proper insurance. Once H1-B guy got sick and he went to Doctor and pharmacy, Pharmacy charged him $250 coz they wont take the shitty insurance (some Indian Insurance), H1-Bs are being abused a lot""

Lets work together to stop the abuses in the system.
Remember that at the end, the solution should be fair to all the parties involved - immigrants, americans and the corporations.

snathan 04-26-2009 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336869)
M**f** ganguteli

I'm not anti immigrant. I'm on H1 (actually EAD with EB3 PD of Jan 2004).Almost got laid off with replacement by an L1 from TCS. Good for now for another 3 months!!

If you still think against me, i wish you get a situation where you might get laid off and replaced by an L1

I'm for reform for GC processing and I dont support the abuses because of L1s

No more discussions with idiots like you

I completely understand the situation. But believe me this bill not good for anyone but anti-immigrant. We need to fix the broken system and make sure the employee is not tied to the employer. It will take care of all the misuse and low wage. I hope you understand the point. Now they are coming for L1, then H1 and then for EAD...

United we stand and divided we fall.


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