Immigration Voice

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-   IV Agenda and Legislative Updates (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/)
-   -   IV Update: Text of the 'outsourcing bill' (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum16-iv-agenda-and-legislative-updates/25288-iv-update-text-of-the-outsourcing-bill.html)

pappu 04-24-2009 07:54 PM

IV Update: Text of the 'outsourcing bill'
 
Here is the Durbin Grassley outsourcing bill. We will be providing our analysis soon

http://immigrationvoice.org/media/fo...urcingbill.pdf

ilikekilo 04-24-2009 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappu (Post 336697)
Here is the Durbin Grassley outsourcing bill. We will be providing our analysis soon

http://immigrationvoice.org/media/fo...urcingbill.pdf


Thanks for the update...looks like they are trying to make it harder for the companies..

ilikekilo 04-25-2009 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336760)
High time this bill is passed. Too much fraud in L1s and H1s.Existing H1s dont have jobs and our green cards pending and no hope when it will come. They should really make L1 very very hard because I work in a huge wireless company where they get L1s from companies like TCS and they work 15 hours a day with $25 billing rate, because of which all contractors and permenant workes (on H1, GC, EAD etc) are being laid off

I wish this bill passes with full effect


Your emotions are understood as we are all in the same boat towards a common goal. Please refrain from making comments that give a perception to people who read it as if the whole system is rotten, it doesnt help yours and our cause..thanks for your understanding.:).. and lastly please dont name companies either. Its just doesnt help.

morchu 04-25-2009 09:10 PM

Understood. Now you want all H1 L1 B1 everything to be stopped. So lets vote only for EAD/AP/GC till you get your GC. After that US should stop GC also, right? (but ofcourse, naturalization still should remain open for a few more years).

If one person can work for your job at $8/hr, and you are charging $100/hr, market would adjust itself to $8/hr (for a moment forget about who does this $8/hr, it can be a high-school kid, or anybody).The only reason why somebody blames that $8/hr kid for loosing his job is because he "thinks" he is "superior" to that kid. There are many situations where companies decide to retain "fresh college grads" and layoff "senior experienced" persons, to save money.

Don't take me wrong, but I also think the L1 is mis-used a bit. But I personally think the mis-usage comes from other factors (like H1 unavailability, employer prefer L1 because employee cannot change to another employer in L1, other H1 restrictions) etc..

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336760)
.....I wish this bill passes with full effect


snathan 04-26-2009 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morchu (Post 336808)
Understood. Now you want all H1 L1 B1 everything to be stopped. So lets vote only for EAD/AP/GC till you get your GC. After that US should stop GC also, right? (but ofcourse, naturalization still should remain open for a few more years).

If one person can work for your job at $8/hr, and you are charging $100/hr, market would adjust itself to $8/hr (for a moment forget about who does this $8/hr, it can be a high-school kid, or anybody).The only reason why somebody blames that $8/hr kid for loosing his job is because he "thinks" he is "superior" to that kid. There are many situations where companies decide to retain "fresh college grads" and layoff "senior experienced" persons, to save money.

Don't take me wrong, but I also think the L1 is mis-used a bit. But I personally think the mis-usage comes from other factors (like H1 unavailability, employer prefer L1 because employee cannot change to another employer in L1, other H1 restrictions) etc..

Not a bit. If you want I can give you a plenty... L1 is for intercompany transfer. But So far I have seen companies put people only at the client place and their salary is starting at 32K and they are put up at extended staty, asked to share the cab or car. So let me know if you want and I can directly let you talk to those guys.

Though I am not supporting this bill, we have to accept the face there is no numerical limit on L1 and no knows how many L1 are getting approvd every year. L1 guys can not change their employer, they dont have any idea about their benifts. I know a company which have a policy that the employee can not have US insurance untill he is here for six months. They bought the cheap indian insurance and no doctor is accepting here. So the employee needs to pay from his pocket and need to collect it later. Because of this guys are not even going to the hospital.

Yes, you can work for $8 but there is something called law. I have personelly checked their labor which states 55K. But they are paid only 32K.

So our common goal is to fix the broken system, remove the employer's undue advantage over the employee. No matter if they are MNC or desi consulting companies. Why the employee is tied to the employer when there is the need/demand for the skill set. Thats the only thing which is driving down the wages.

vbkris77 04-26-2009 01:36 AM

Lets focus
 
Lets move on and focus on this main topic...

Here are my observations.. Correct me if I am wrong..

1. L1 option for IT is essentially killed

2. Small IT companies will limit the headcount to 50 per company. It doesn't cost much to have more than one company. So no major changes to H1B Desi companies.

3. Most of the big American companies will not offer new H1B with 180 days, since most of them would have had layoffs.

4. Most IT companies will start spending a lot on lawyers. So they will be rich. There will be lot of audits.

5. Companies will complete PERM and I140 before getting a guy onsite, only if people are really interested in coming to USA any longer.

6. Need more clarity on where H1B outsourcing will be stopped...

gc28262 04-26-2009 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbkris77 (Post 336825)
Lets move on and focus on this main topic...

Here are my observations.. Correct me if I am wrong..

1. L1 option for IT is essentially killed

2. Small IT companies will limit the headcount to 50 per company. It doesn't cost much to have more than one company. So no major changes to H1B Desi companies.

3. Most of the big American companies will not offer new H1B with 180 days, since most of them would have had layoffs.

4. Most IT companies will start spending a lot on lawyers. So they will be rich. There will be lot of audits.

5. Companies will complete PERM and I140 before getting a guy onsite, only if people are really interested in coming to USA any longer.

6. Need more clarity on where H1B outsourcing will be stopped...

Good recap. This bill is not about liberating employees. This bill is to kill H1Bs and L1s irrespective of whether the company is a consulting company or a direct employer.

Net result ? more outsourcing. Big outsourcing firms have enough experienced employees on their payroll to do outsourcing effectively.

If this bill passes, it will be a shameful day for USA.

kcforgc 04-26-2009 02:30 AM

What are the changes to H1b?
 
I looked at the pdf briefly but did not completely understand what changes are proposed for H1b in the bill.

Below are some per my understanding. And also below are questions.

1) Now it looks like H1b requires PERM type recruitment. Is it only for new H1bs or also for extensions & Transfers?? Most of us are already in our 7th/8th year extensions and some others are in 9th & 10th years. It will impact further extensions or transfers and will jeopardize our GC process.

2) These changes would unnecessarily scare away genuine employers as it is like a mini- GC perm process. They may settle for an unqualified or less qualified citizen instead of hiring a highly qualified H1b suitable for the job.

morchu 04-26-2009 04:34 AM

Lets not support this bill guys. The right way to stop mis-use of H1 or L1 by companies is to make it a free market for the "employees" in visa. Let them be able to work for "any employer". Do you think the L1 guy will let him be abused, if he was allowed to change employers easily. Lets not close the doors for others, lets have an open mind to for competition and equal human treatment. Also lets see what is best for USA.

Putting more restrictions on employer is never effective. Abusing employers will always find the loopholes, and the legitimate employers will be scared away. The effective way is to get the "visa employees" more freedom.

arnab221 04-26-2009 04:56 AM

Outsourcing cannot be stopped by protectionism
 
Outsourcing cannot be stopped with these nonsense bills . Outsourcing can only be stopped when the US market relizes that it is highly overpriced for the same job that is doine abroad for a far lesser price and adjusts accordingly . Every work has a value associated to it and the price needs to be paid according to the value of the work and not the place it is done ( India or the US )


Example
*******
Lets take a example of a barber. The barber in India charges about Rs 30 ( 45 Cents ) whereas for the same task a barber in US charges about $ 15 ( Rs750 ) . Now the question is , is the barber in the US more skilled than the barber in India , or the Barber in US doing a job if much more value than the barber in India . The reason that the barber is charging more is simply because of the virtue of the fact that he is in the USA and nothig else .

In the same way the Software Consultants ( Indian or Americans ) who are getting paid more in the USA , pleas remember that the reason for the extra salkary is not because we are more skilled or do better value work . It is simply because of the virtue of being located in the USA and nothing else .

GM Ford and Chrysler
*******************
Now instead of frowing and looking down upon the people who do the same value work for less , we need to be appreciative of their competative spirit . They work hard , so the same work , get paid less and compete with us . Whats not to appreciate of that ? Is this not the way the American dream is made . These senators instead if introducing a price correction in the US to bring down the rate of work in US are trying protectionism tactics to prevent people from selling the same work at alower rate . The result will be what hapenned to GM and Ford and Chrysler .These contractors that these companies negotiated with their staff has resulted in their downfall . GM staff drinks beer outside a closed plant and still the UAW contract entiles them to $94.00 per hour . GM and ford though that American consumers will protect them from Honda and Toyota which had much cheaper workes ( on flexible rates ) and made much better cars . The Durbin Grassley amendment will result in the same fate to other american compoanies that happenned to GM and Ford .

Caliber 04-26-2009 10:22 AM

I agree
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by snathan (Post 336823)
Not a bit. If you want I can give you a plenty... L1 is for intercompany transfer. But So far I have seen companies put people only at the client place and their salary is starting at 32K and they are put up at extended staty, asked to share the cab or car. So let me know if you want and I can directly let you talk to those guys.

Yes, you can work for $8 but there is something called law. I have personelly checked their labor which states 55K. But they are paid only 32K.

So our common goal is to fix the broken system, remove the employer's undue advantage over the employee. No matter if they are MNC or desi consulting companies. Why the employee is tied to the employer when there is the need/demand for the skill set. Thats the only thing which is driving down the wages.

I fully agree with this. L1's being placed at Client's place is ILLEGAL. I have several proof's of this. TCS, Infy, CTS and LT do FAVOR their employees with a gift of filing in EB1 because these guys WOULD not complain to any one what they are paid and their benefits.

Any one want proof's?

ganguteli 04-26-2009 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336853)
Lets do overself a favor by supporting this bill esp on L1s

Our goal is faster GC processing and not supporting L1s who will steal jobs from us

Someone please take action against this anti-immigrant.
Anti-immigrants are coming to the site and posting in favor of this bill and abusing H1B or L1s or pitching against each other. Let us be careful in responding to such posts.

pappu 04-26-2009 12:45 PM

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...423_219068.htm

But advocates for skilled immigrants—many of whom remain stuck for years on H-1Bs waiting in the long queue for permanent residency—worry that the bill is a political maneuver rather than an earnest effort at reform. Aman Kapoor, president of the skilled immigrant advocate group Immigration Voice, says that a more effective bill would ensure H-1B visa workers are on a level playing field with U.S. workers. "Skilled immigrants on H-1Bs don't get the same rights and protections as everyone else," says Kapoor. "So wouldn't the solution be to empower and enable the skilled immigrants on H-1Bs such that…skilled immigrants on H-1s have adequate protections so that no one can take advantage of [them]? But no one wants to talk about protections for skilled immigrants."

legal_alien_007 04-26-2009 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336824)
You are right. L1s are paid shit and are not given proper insurance. Once L1 guy got sick and he went to Doctor and pharmacy, Pharmacy charged him $250 coz they wont take the shitty insurance (some Indian Insurance), L1s are being absued a lot

TNMan,
I feel sorry for your situation and you seem to be under a lot of stress. However lets show some civility in our discourse and not make this a blame game.

When an american loses his job, he feels exactly the same way as you do, except that he doesn't really distinguish a H1-B from an L1.

Replace 'L1' with 'H1-B' in your comments and see how they look,

""You are right. H1-Bs are paid shit and are not given proper insurance. Once H1-B guy got sick and he went to Doctor and pharmacy, Pharmacy charged him $250 coz they wont take the shitty insurance (some Indian Insurance), H1-Bs are being abused a lot""

Lets work together to stop the abuses in the system.
Remember that at the end, the solution should be fair to all the parties involved - immigrants, americans and the corporations.

snathan 04-26-2009 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336869)
M**f** ganguteli

I'm not anti immigrant. I'm on H1 (actually EAD with EB3 PD of Jan 2004).Almost got laid off with replacement by an L1 from TCS. Good for now for another 3 months!!

If you still think against me, i wish you get a situation where you might get laid off and replaced by an L1

I'm for reform for GC processing and I dont support the abuses because of L1s

No more discussions with idiots like you

I completely understand the situation. But believe me this bill not good for anyone but anti-immigrant. We need to fix the broken system and make sure the employee is not tied to the employer. It will take care of all the misuse and low wage. I hope you understand the point. Now they are coming for L1, then H1 and then for EAD...

United we stand and divided we fall.

snathan 04-26-2009 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappu (Post 336865)
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...423_219068.htm

But advocates for skilled immigrants—many of whom remain stuck for years on H-1Bs waiting in the long queue for permanent residency—worry that the bill is a political maneuver rather than an earnest effort at reform. Aman Kapoor, president of the skilled immigrant advocate group Immigration Voice, says that a more effective bill would ensure H-1B visa workers are on a level playing field with U.S. workers. "Skilled immigrants on H-1Bs don't get the same rights and protections as everyone else," says Kapoor. "So wouldn't the solution be to empower and enable the skilled immigrants on H-1Bs such that…skilled immigrants on H-1s have adequate protections so that no one can take advantage of [them]? But no one wants to talk about protections for skilled immigrants."

I posted my commnets on thiss....did you.

senthil1 04-26-2009 05:42 PM

One of the abuse is to avoid paying tax.Some big companies are sending L1 persons out of the country after they complete 11 months(If L1 persons are staying more than 1 year company has to pay tax). Now L1 and H1 are having same type of of nature of work but L1 has so much undue advantages like L2 can work, No salary restrictions, Companies can avoid taxes in many circumstances with no restrictions in rules like H1b at all. No cap also.This is also some type of discrimination in the law. In fact L1 need to be capped than H1b as L1 is playing more role in displacing USA workers but many cases in H1b is creating more jobs by innovation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336869)
M**f** ganguteli

I'm not anti immigrant. I'm on H1 (actually EAD with EB3 PD of Jan 2004).Almost got laid off with replacement by an L1 from TCS. Good for now for another 3 months!!

If you still think against me, i wish you get a situation where you might get laid off and replaced by an L1

I'm for reform for GC processing and I dont support the abuses because of L1s

No more discussions with idiots like you


polapragada 04-26-2009 07:16 PM

I have seen so many in this forum spits on L1. This is really bad, we all belong to one family and one kind.

If some one thinks L1 is more advantagous why don't those people join TCS or some thing...

Well let me put some of the Disadv.

1. On L1 one canot change the job. If you want to change the employer you should have H1B
2. L1B salaries are 20% less than H1B on AVG
3. If employer want to send you back (For any silly stupid reason) you are gone
4. Most of the companies like TCS, INFOSYS, WIPRO won't file green cards for 99.99% people
5. On avg a L1 person stays in US in a trip for 1 - 2 years.


Now think!

And above all as I said all those L1 are living in this country legally like me and you, living a painful uncertain life. Because the time is bad now we can't blame them.

Some one talking about getting laid off with TCS employee. just recapture the 5 or 8 years back when you replaced a AMERICAN CITIZEN and you can't call people as idiots ... its street clear.

Well some of you may not agree with me, but if you want to respond harhly just visit any L1B guys house some how they are living.

Unite, Fight! Don't fall for same old british divide and rule tricks.

polapragada 04-26-2009 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336822)
I like majority of others who came here on H1 with genunine intent of settling down should work toward common goal of easier GC processing and not support outsourcing idiots esp L1s who is nothing but shipping jobs overseas and making a field (eg IT) minimum wage pay. Just look around how much TCS pay .

COmmon goal of us is easier and humane green card processing and to work towards the goal to stop blatant abuses in the form of L1 (and some H1 )

Watch your language.. My friend.. don't throw your rotten ideas as facts

TCS for deputed employees
1. 60.5 K -70 K
2. Full medical insurance (whole family) from Cigna...
3. 401K 4%
4. All travel and relation expenses
5. So many...
--> better than most desi employers

If you think that there is abuse in L1 so in H1

Becasue of so people like you anti-I could able to successfully devide us.

If you think that out sourcing and sending jobs to India is utterly wrong.. so giving jobs to foreigners in US.
You and me are here because of globalization, if we want to get PROTECTed from MORE globalization.. for sure every body will suffer, Indians (in India),L1,H1, You, me, Even Citizens.

And if you are an Indian and going to loose job in USA because of the ptotectionizam you will end begging a job from the same Indian outsourcing companies. Watch out..

snathan 04-26-2009 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polapragada (Post 336925)
I have seen so many in this forum spits on L1. This is really bad, we all belong to one family and one kind.

If some one thinks L1 is more advantagous why don't those people join TCS or some thing...

Well let me put some of the Disadv.

1. On L1 one canot change the job. If you want to change the employer you should have H1B
2. L1B salaries are 20% less than H1B on AVG
3. If employer want to send you back (For any silly stupid reason) you are gone
4. Most of the companies like TCS, INFOSYS, WIPRO won't file green cards for 99.99% people
5. On avg a L1 person stays in US in a trip for 1 - 2 years.


Now think!

And above all as I said all those L1 are living in this country legally like me and you, living a painful uncertain life. Because the time is bad now we can't blame them.

Some one talking about getting laid off with TCS employee. just recapture the 5 or 8 years back when you replaced a AMERICAN CITIZEN and you can't call people as idiots ... its street clear.

Well some of you may not agree with me, but if you want to respond harhly just visit any L1B guys house some how they are living.

Unite, Fight! Don't fall for same old british divide and rule tricks.

We dont have to fight on H1B vs L1B. But the fact is employees with L1 are suffering more then H1Bs.

polapragada 04-26-2009 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snathan (Post 336929)
We dont have to fight on H1B vs L1B. But the fact is employees with L1 are suffering more then H1Bs.

YES santhan...

BTW I am H1B :D

polapragada 04-26-2009 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336936)
Thats exactly why we need to be against L1s. There is no numerical limit on them. Companies can pay peanuts as you just wrote.They work here for 1 year and take the job permenantly. They screw the work culture here

What work culture you are talking about.. LOL!!

Its besiness man... you are in a captlist country...
And we are here because of GLOBALIZATION...
Don't be too selfish

bigboy007 04-26-2009 08:43 PM

understood the anguish,... But will it do any good. No for sure. If not on H1, If not on L1 then outsourcing companies will find alternative like B1/B2 i have seen many examples... if on B1/B2 no benefits at all get the person get the work done forget the "Person"....

This bill will INCREASE Outsourcing.. .My view. becoz employers after reading the text would say why should i worry about filing H1 after all so no new H1 Transfers to regular comps and no to existing consulting companies due to 50% limit. L1's are screwed.

Ask yourself what does it do and whom does it help. Does it help existing economy , looks to many becoz they dont understand it increases offshoring...

But there is already enough abuse in H1/L1 , How is IV recommending path forward for this bill ?

bigboy007 04-26-2009 08:48 PM

Your view is right myfriend. No one cant be in your shoes but it cant be channeled at L1's. ppl here feel the heat of outsourcing through H1/L1 as thats the route taken. But if there is limited oursourcing everyone is happy. We are missing that and technically that cant happen due to trade issues... as i said If not H1 then L1 else B2....... On B2 one is NOT supposed to work they still abuse.. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336938)
you will know when you face layoffs and unfairly they target you.


vbkris77 04-26-2009 11:03 PM

Talk to DOL
 
Hello TNMan, If L1 guys is doing a H1B duty and if you can prove it, sue TCS and talk to DOL. You won't need GC trust me. They will pay a lot.. and pls. help us by creating one more thread on this subject exclusively.. Don't hijack an important thread like this...

But forum, Pls. get back focus onto the main topic..

pappu 04-26-2009 11:27 PM

Warning
 
Please stop H1 Vs L1 discussion and do not support those who aim to divide this community on various visa types, categories, nationalities etc. Any further attempts by any member in this direction will result in ban. We would appreciate if you read the bill posted by IV and provide some analysis on its content on this thread.

gc28262 04-26-2009 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNMan (Post 336938)
you will know when you face layoffs and unfairly they target you.

H1 and L1 laws:
We (employees) didn't write it.
Outsourcing companies didn't write it.

US government wrote these laws.

Why should an H1B pack his bag in zero days when he loses his job ? ( He doesn't even get time to sell his house, take care of his kid's education etc)

Why is an H1B employee asked to pay for social security and medicare when government knows that he cannot take advantage of these benefits ?

Why does different DMVs discriminate against H1Bs when issuing licenses ?


Mr Dick and co is ready to kick you all out of the country. It does not matter whether you are on H1 or L1.:mad:

walking_dude 04-27-2009 12:56 AM

My analysis...
 
Newer version is - as should've been expected - more protectionist than before.

1) It prohibits H1B workers from working in contract positions.There is a redundant provision for the L1 visa as well (there is already a law which does this for L1). However it doesn't prevent American companies from keeping these contract workers in India or elsewhere and co-ordinate the work through web-conferencing, video conferencing, VPN/VNC etc.

2) It increases H1B fees by another 1000 dollars. There will be the added cost of advertising on DOL website. Also, the legal costs of navigating the audits. It also enables Tort attorneys to sue the companies on behalf of labor unions such as IEEE-USA, PG, Bright Future Jobs, Zazona etc. In essence it makes the whole visa program unviable. American companies cannot participate in the visa program without letting the DOL and the Tort attorneys poking their noses in the daily functioning of Corporate America. Imagine which company will apply for H1B when you'll have ads airing on TV from Tort attorneys - 'Have you been displaced by H1B worker? Call 1-800-TORT-ATTORNEY'?

3) It has a whole gamut of so-called 'H1B/L1B worker protections'. Unless and until the complaining foreign worker's visa status/GC status is protected against employer retaliation, these provisions will remain only on paper, as foreigner workers facing the prospect of forced departure from the country will not complain - extra worker protections or not. They might as well scrap these provisions and save some trees in the process!

4) It retains the provision that H1B/L1 worker must be provided all originals for H1B, Green Card etc. However this will be moot, as there won't be many H1B/L1 workers left in the US to take the benefit. They would already have moved to their home countries, brining the salaries down in their home countries die to excess supply. This combined with technical enablers are going to make outsourcing HOT. I think it's a good time to invest in the stocks of these outsourcing companies. Their returns are going to increase exponentially in a year. I am not surprised, if these companies send a 'Thank You' note to Senators Durbin and Grassley for making such a windfall possible.


If this year only 44,000 visas were used after half a month, wait until this law passes. There will already 10,000 or less visa applications. On a short term basis wages will sky-rocket, when companies are already struggling to make the ends meet. This will definitely make the usage of technological innovations such as the ones mentioned in point 1 more appealing to the companies. In the long run Outsourcing will become cheaper and more attractive.

Faced with accute worker shortage and unreasonably high-salaries driven scarcity in an economy under recession, Companies will have only 3 options. 1) Announce bankruptcy and get out of business salvaging what they can 2) Leverage technology to do outsourcing circumventing the need for visas 3) Beg the government for another 'Stimulus' and more borrowed money from the Chinese to pay the salaries.

This will hit hard the humanitarian immigration for refugees, asylees etc. USCIS is a government department run on visa application fees. As H1B fee-base reduces US government will have to appropriate more funds to USCIS to keep these programs running. The cost of these programmes will increasingly be borne by the American tax-payer. As jobs keep getting outsourced at a much faster speed tax-base formed by these H1B/L1 workers will shift to other economies benefiting them, the government will have to increases the taxes to make up for the difference. No doubt this will increase the tax burden on an average American - even those who had nothing to do with H1B, pro- or against.

The day this law passes will be a great day for Outsourcing, and a sad day for America.



Quote:

Originally Posted by pappu (Post 336967)
Please stop H1 Vs L1 discussion and do not support those who aim to divide this community on various visa types, categories, nationalities etc. Any further attempts by any member in this direction will result in ban. We would appreciate if you read the bill posted by IV and provide some analysis on its content on this thread.


bigboy007 04-27-2009 01:14 AM

Not sure about the increase in fees here is what i have seen comparing it to INA and subsections...


1. Higher wage requirements defs being added to definitions seciton in INA [Immigration and Nationality Act], Requirement of Internet posting, wage determination.

2. 90 Days being replaced as 180 days for non displacement option

3. No consulting for H1B employees based on the Recruitment (F) section.

4. SEC 102. I states if no. of employees > 50 , sum of [H1B, L(1,2)(L1A, L1 , L2 Perdef 101(a)(15)(L)))] should not exceed 50% of No. of employees. No more H1B's

5. Sec 111. mispresentation period increased to 24 months from 12 months, USCIS will conduct audits for all employers if no. of employees > 100 and no. of H1 employees > 15% , Publish publicly those reports

6. Failure to meet a condition increase from 1000 to 2000 , failure for misrepresentation increased from 5000 to 10000. Employer will be liable for employees lost wages and benefits.

7. illegal : H1B non immigrant to pay a penalty for ceasing an employment with employer before the agreed date, failure to provide common benefits health , life , disability , insurance , retirement , savings, cash/noncash bonus etc...

8. with in 90 days of enacting S887 , secretary of labor will provide website to post these positions on labor department website.

9. stream line of job classifications and roles with 1 year of enacting of S887...

10. DOL can hire 200+ employees to fill these requirements ;)

+ l1's I have not gone through....



Quote:

Originally Posted by walking_dude (Post 336985)
Newer version is - as should've been expected - more protectionist than before.

1) It prohibits H1B workers from working in contract positions.There is a redundant provision for the L1 visa as well (there is already a law which does this for L1). However it doesn't prevent American companies from keeping these contract workers in India or elsewhere and co-ordinate the work through web-conferencing, video conferencing, VPN/VNC etc.

2) It increases H1B fees by another 1000 dollars. There will be the added cost of advertising on DOL website. Also, the legal costs of navigating the audits. It also enables Tort attorneys to sue the companies on behalf of labor unions such as IEEE-USA, PG, Bright Future Jobs, Zazona etc. In essence it makes the whole visa program unviable. American companies cannot participate in the visa program without letting the DOL and the Tort attorneys poking their noses in the daily functioning of Corporate America. Imagine which company will apply for H1B when you'll have ads airing on TV from Tort attorneys - 'Have you been displaced by H1B worker? Call 1-800-TORT-ATTORNEY'?

3) It has a whole gamut of so-called 'H1B/L1B worker protections'. Unless and until the complaining foreign worker's visa status/GC status is protected against employer retaliation, these provisions will remain only on paper, as foreigner workers facing the prospect of forced departure from the country will not complain - extra worker protections or not. They might as well scrap these provisions and save some trees in the process!

4) It retains the provision that H1B/L1 worker must be provided all originals for H1B, Green Card etc. However this will be moot, as there won't be many H1B/L1 workers left in the US to take the benefit. They would already have moved to their home countries, brining the salaries down in their home countries die to excess supply. This combined with technical enablers are going to make outsourcing HOT. I think it's a good time to invest in the stocks of these outsourcing companies. Their returns are going to increase exponentially in a year. I am not surprised, if these companies send a 'Thank You' note to Senators Durbin and Grassley for making such a windfall possible.


If this year only 44,000 visas were used after half a month, wait until this law passes. There will already 10,000 or less visa applications. On a short term basis wages will sky-rocket, when companies are already struggling to make the ends meet. This will definitely make the usage of technological innovations such as the ones mentioned in point 1 more appealing to the companies. In the long run Outsourcing will become cheaper and more attractive.

Faced with accute worker shortage and unreasonably high-salaries driven scarcity in an economy under recession, Companies will have only 3 options. 1) Announce bankruptcy and get out of business salvaging what they can 2) Leverage technology to do outsourcing circumventing the need for visas 3) Beg the government for another 'Stimulus' and more borrowed money from the Chinese to pay the salaries.

This will hit hard the humanitarian immigration for refugees, asylees etc. USCIS is a government department run on visa application fees. As H1B fee-base reduces US government will have to appropriate more funds to USCIS to keep these programs running. The cost of these programmes will increasingly be borne by the American tax-payer. As jobs keep getting outsourced at a much faster speed tax-base formed by these H1B/L1 workers will shift to other economies benefiting them, the government will have to increases the taxes to make up for the difference. No doubt this will increase the tax burden on an average American - even those who had nothing to do with H1B, pro- or against.

The day this law passes will be a great day for Outsourcing, and a sad day for America.


pd_recapturing 04-27-2009 01:36 AM

It seems that Indian govt cant do much to raise this issue in WTO.

http://business.rediff.com/report/20...a-proposal.htm

senthil1 04-27-2009 03:33 AM

My analysis if the law is passed in the current form

1. Non displacement provision will delay H1b process. But innovation will not be impacted as best companies Like Google, Microsoft and start up companies will not have a problem in proving that skills are not available in the market.

2. When a company lays off they cannot recruit for 6 months. But a company is laying off people they will hardly recruit for 6 months. Generally when they do less than 5% of staff that will not come under layoff provision and still they can recruit H1b. So only a few positions will be impacted.

3. 50% rule may make many bodyshoppers and Top indian companies force to recruit US Citizens and medium non public companies may split into many companies. Some H1b dependent small and medium companies may go out of business. It will have huge short term impact on H1b aspirants but they will adjust quickly to change their jobs.

4. More powers for DOL will make the companies to follow the law and reduction of abuse

5. Of course the restrictions will make less number of jobs for H1bs and L1s. But when economy improves demand will increase so that H1b cap will be reached inspite of all these restrictions. I strongly believe that system will adjust the new restrictions similar to TARP bill but short term very high impact. But that can be minimised by applying all those restrictions only for new H1bs. Generally more restrictions the persons qualifying will be best and bright and also wages for H1bs,L1s also will increase with improved working conditions.

6. If pro immigrants like IV can negotiate to include Recapture or increase GC cap. But that depends on chance of passing the bill. If IV and other pro immigrants lobby and block the bill then that makes sense. But if the bill gets bi partisan support then it may be wise to take different approach. This bill may be like 2007 and may not be considered at all.

I did not read the bill completely but my views were based on some major provisions and also I do not believe the conspiracy thoeries that they want to remove the H1b program first then EAD then GCs. But it is a protection for US citizens. I am not arguing that the protection is right or wrong but most countries in the world are trying to do that when recession. India has 100% protection for jobs for Indian citizens

eb3_2004 04-27-2009 08:39 AM

Nice Article...Right Time...
 
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...od=rss_WSJBlog

gc28262 04-27-2009 11:01 AM

Don't see new H1B proposal turning into an Act: NASSCOM
 
http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/ne...nasscom/395009

gc28262 04-27-2009 11:02 AM

US's new H1-B proposal anti-trade: NASSCOM
 
http://www.moneycontrol.com/mccode/n...al=mkt_topnews

gc_on_demand 04-27-2009 11:37 AM

I don't think this bill will pass as standalone
 
Picture will become more clear in MAY when Pres. OBAMA will announce his plan for CIR 2009. If he does then chances of this bill going anywhere is very minimal. Also don't forget that this is just in senate. Same version needs to be pass in House. Amendment to Stimulas package regarding Financial Company cannot hire h1b was relatively easy. It doesnot need bill go through all sub committee and other lengthy process.

I think we should focus only on our main agenda. Green Card. We can closly watch this bill. Even if it advance to subcommitte in Senate ( Hearing and all ) then we can start move on it otherwise we will waste so much of our manpower and energy.

Wouldn't it be their statergy to divert / divide people on H1b / L1b issue so we loose our energy by the time CIR 2009 planing going on. And they can easily add some more real actions in CIR ?

ganguteli 04-27-2009 12:34 PM

IV should work hard on defeating this bill. It will send a clear message to anti-immigrants even if the bill does not pass.
Just because we want our green cards does not mean we forget people on H1b or future H1Bs
Anti-immigrants do not differentiate us based on H1, L1, EAD, PD, ROW, EB3 etc. The bill is aimed at throwing all immigrants out. Period.

ganguteli 04-27-2009 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsLife (Post 337050)
Agreed that this will throw out all the crappy body shoppers. This is what we need in future not to make it difficult for future h1-b or other people. We should infact support this bill as this will weed out many Indian Body shoppers and benefit everyone.

This is nothing new but most of it is just implementing what is already in low. Thats my take on it.

You are talking like an anti-immigrant. Are you one of those on this forum?

Just because you are out of H1B are now on EAD, you want nobody else to come in.

Did you not yourself come through a consulting company? Did you not use a consulting company to get H1 for your wife or get a substitute labor? If you lose your job today you will be going to these consulting companies only to beg for a job. Once you get your green card you will be starting one yourself if you are smart. So let us see this as an anti-immigrant bill.

weasley 04-27-2009 01:16 PM

Which planet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by senthil1 (Post 337002)
India has 100% protection for jobs for Indian citizens

Did you mean the India on Earth? :D I dont think people laid off from IT companies in India even get severence.

ganguteli 04-27-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weasley (Post 337057)
Did you mean the India on Earth? :D I dont think people laid off from IT companies in India even get severence.

Senthil1 is an anti-immigrant and should have been banned long time back.

jelo 04-27-2009 01:58 PM

Please do the same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsLife (Post 337065)
I am not talking like anyone, just expressing my views. Please refrain your self from pointing fingers to any member. I did not come through a consulting company, hope this makes you happy.

mr Ganduteli please dont make comments on either visa status, my wife or any substitute labor as none of them apply to my case.


likewise please do not generalize any working type or business which is legally allowed to operate in US just because you are not working for that.
Please restrain from posting anything negative which will not help anybody.


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