temp victory for anti-immigrants

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by qplearn

If there is no sub labor, I have no problem with increasing GCs. Otherwise increasing GCs without increasing EBs is going to be horrible. I have been in the US for over 11 yrs. People who came here in 2002 are getting GCs. Is that fair? Tell me that?

Plus, let me tell you one thing. This forum is not really fighting to get H1Bs increased. I apologize if I said we should try to stop H1Bs. And don't worry, that is not gonna happen.

well the bottomline is that all u guys came here on a h-1b and sud remember that, its like me getting the greencard and saying we sud stop further greencards coz my jobs been taking away from the new gc's coz the economy cannot sustain them, ur talking no diffrent from the same people u chastise

[Jimi_Hendrix]

Originally Posted by dish

If you go through the H1b case data for the year 2005, (which can be downloaded from flcdatacenter), and look for the job code 030 (computer jobs),
and sort their salaries, you will see programmer analysts and software engineers being paid 25000 anually, Yes they are in california and other costly cities.

There are many programmer/sw engg jobs well belo 45000 annually.

This is what drives NumbersUSA and Programmers Guild to cry out "H1B fraud" and "Cheap Labor Imported". And they have facts to support them. This issue is serious and increasing H1b numbers without Reforming H1b for fraud and cheap labor is indeed a disaster for not only american citizens, but also to future aspirants of GC and Citizenship. In fact we should support NumbersUSA and ProgrammersGuild if they are proposing this reform.

You seem to be spending too much time on NumbersUSA website. Maybe you are starting to even like them

[qplearn]

Originally Posted by bugmenot

well the bottomline is that all u guys came here on a h-1b and sud remember that, its like me getting the greencard and saying we sud stop further greencards coz my jobs been taking away from the new gc's coz the economy cannot sustain them, ur talking no diffrent from the same people u chastise

Came here on an F-1. And then got onto an H1. Again, I apologize if I said H1Bs should be stopped. That was probably in a moment of insanity.

But the discussion here is on a reform of H1B and automatic EB after H1B. (like Australia I think). Let's not digress.

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by qplearn

Came here on an F-1. And then got onto an H1. Again, I apologize if I said H1Bs should be stopped. That was probably in a moment of insanity.

But the discussion here is on a reform of H1B and automatic EB after H1B. (like Australia I think). Let's not digress.

agree with u on that, iam all for reform of h-1b

[qplearn]

Originally Posted by Jimi_Hendrix

You seem to be spending too much time on NumbersUSA website. Maybe you are starting to even like them

I don't like them. But if they are suggesting something fair, what is the problem?

[Pineapple]

gplearn, remember this:
"He who will dine with the devil must bring a long spoon" ..

Originally Posted by qplearn

I don't like them. But if they are suggesting something fair, what is the problem?

[dish]

Reforming H1b is good for H1bs only. I really wonder how a person can survive with 25000 a year in CA or NY. The employers should be forced to give prevailing wage for the employee. Atleast the employee should be paid a decent salary.

[qplearn]

Originally Posted by dish

Reforming H1b is good for H1bs only. I really wonder how a person can survive with 25000 a year in CA or NY. The employers should be forced to give prevailing wage for the employee. Atleast the employee should be paid a decent salary.

I agree with this in its entirety. Where I was employed, there was one person, whose job it was to make sure that I was paid above the prevailing wages. I am surprised that such things happen.

[sgsvg]

Originally Posted by qplearn

And I have one more suggestion. Let's fight to entirely stop new H1Bs (yes numbersusa will never oppose that). That might be the only way to get out of this mess. At the very least, if you don't like my first idea, let's lobby to get rid of substitute labor....

Maybe I am finally losing it

That surely sounds like a practical suggestion. Just that we may snatch the US dream of quite a number of US dreamers back in India.

[dixie]

that the only reason a corporation would hire an H1-B is because he works cheaper. Thats their motive behind suggesting "reforms" - they think with the new requirements none of us would be deemed "useful" to the economy after 3 years at the prevailing wage and would be kicked out. Which we know is BULL. The moment they realize the "reforms" dont meet their restrictionist agenda and the majority of us would still qualify for a GC, trust numbersUSA and chameleon meatloaf to change their tune instantly. And by the way, even our friend Jeff Sessions has gone on record to say the US should have an immigration policy like Australia's and Canada's focussing on skilled immigration. We all know how hollow that is - when the time for action comes(like last week), no prizes for guessing what he will do.

We would do well to steer clear of these treacherous xenophobes and have no truck with any of their restrictionist agendas. It is hypocritical of us as prospective immigrants to publicly align with such folks on H1-B, illegal immigration etc no matter what our own reservations may be about these issues.

[Pineapple]

Remember that the 25000 is the "on paper" salary, not the real one.
To explain: When I came to the US, my former employer once came with a proposal whereby I would get a very low salary on paper, and the rest via " reimbursements of expenses" or some such thing. There were other variations too, like low on paper salary with percentage of billing rates, entirely fake on paper with actual based on billing, various complicated arrangements for "on-bench" time, etc etc.
I jumped ship and joined an American company which was at least on the up and up when it came to salary and expenses.
But the larger point is true: The H1 system has been throughly abused by consulting companies, and the result is that everyone suffers. (Except the proprietor of the consulting company - most tend to be owned by a single person)

[qplearn]

Originally Posted by nycgal369

exactly.
I dont like other things on their website, but this proposal by matloff seems like what we are asking for.
So why not work with them on only this one issue?
Fighting contsantly is working against us, so at least if we work with them on one issue we show them we are also not for unreasonable demands, and actually are asking for fair reforms

Actually, Matloff has never said stop every H1B. If there is a fair reform, we should welcome it. After all, all we want is to get out of the mess.

If they change their colors (dixie's point), then we will worry about it later. I think they would not have come up with such a reasonable proposal if they wanted to change colors later. Just my opinion.

But more H1Bs without getting rid of sub labor seems like the worst nightmare come true.

[bugmenot]

its good to remember that its not us against them its the corporations against them, america inc wants cheap labour thats the only reason they pushin the bill they dnt really care bout nething else

[qplearn]

Originally Posted by nycgal369

its possible they may change their colors, but I dont believe Matloff assumes H-1bs are underpaid.
I read where he states that some are, but that others including in his own dept are not, and truly are needed. I would be very surprised if someone like Matloff and at least a few folks over at numbers are unaware that H-1bs and also LC applicants are required to show prevailing wage. This is common knowledge for anyone involved in immigration research.

Also, if this is true and they decide to make changes, we should push even harder to get this passed asap.
they can try to fix their mistakes later, without our support.

Let's not get into ideological debates about aligning ourselves with our enemies. the need of the hour is to get some action taken.
if it works for us, we should do it.

Matloff knows that H1B is not cheap labor. That can NEVER happen in a university setting. Could we come with a compromise here?

[bugmenot]

lame duck proves that there was only one guy (sessions) who didnt wanna vote for us and it stalled, but now in the senate whr a majority vote counts how imp wud his vote be?