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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 01:02 PM
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Default Immigration Reform 2013 discussions: H1B and F1, not for EB folks

This post is not intended for folks who have their EB filed already. This is for F1 and H1B holders without EB process.

F1 and H1B guys: below is what you should do on your part to get the best of the upcoming immigration reform. OR you can look to find and beg employers and wait in line for years and years and years….ACT NOW or wait for years of trashing around and harassment. Spread the word to your F1 and H1B friends also....

It is clear that Immigration reform will pass in early 2013, and it is also clear that illegals will get path to GC with FULL legal work authorizations(Obama wont sign anything below). Along with that EB backlogs will be addressed also. What would be hard is for people who are legal in US and are not in EB line yet i.e. F1 and H1B holders without EB in process.

Why should a guy who illegally crossed the border 2 or 3 or 4 years back and started working illegally in US be able to pay few fines and file for GC, while a guy(F1 and H1) who legally crossed border 2 or 3 or 4 years back have to go through extra steps of finding employers, going through PERM, extra fees, job advertisements, etc etc to file for GC. Why can’t he just go stand in line, pay a fee and file for GC. It is clear that being illegal is an advantage at this point.


What people like me on H1B and F1 who don’t have EB in process yet would like to do is to go stand in line with illegals and apply for Adjustment of Status(AOS) filing for GC. This has multiple advantages:
1) Immediate EAD to work for any employer legally
2) no employer to find or beg to start the garbage PERM process,
3) no employer dependence and need to stick with single employer at low wages
4) no fear of layoffs to end the process and START the whole thing anew. This is usually biggest nightmare in this economy



I request all those who don’t have EB process started yet to send emails to their senators and congressmen that they should be treated equally and better than the guy who came here illegally. Below is sample. ACT NOW....

“Dear Senator Graham,

I am bringing up a very important topic that many people ignore. This is regarding the illegal vs legal immigrants "already inside" United States, and how text of immigration reforms punish legal law abiding immigrants “inside” US by preventing them to apply for Adjustment of Status(AOS) becoming a green card permanent resident(PR), while the same text allows the illegal immigrant inside US to apply for AOS and get PR.

This topic becomes important in the drafting details of text of the Immigration reform legislation being proposed.

It is unquestionable that the illegals "inside" this country will be offered a path to legalization i.e. permanent residence (PR) through Adjustment of Status (AOS). My question is this: Why should a guy who came to this country LEGALLY cannot pay some fine and background check to get PR through AOS just like a guy who came to this country ILLEGALLY and broke the law. Seems like the text of legislations have been intentionally or unintentionally punishing the people who are "inside" the US legally by stating that only the illegals can apply for AOS to become a PR. It is a shame that a guy who crossed border illegally 5 years back and started working in US ILLEGALLY will give few fines and background checks and become a PR, while a guy who came LEGALLY to this country 5 years back will have to go through bunch of extra steps, including finding a employer sponsor, extra fees, background checks to get a PR. The text of immigration legislations punish the legally present people by not allowing them to apply for AOS by paying a fee and background check while the allow illegals to apply for AOS by paying a fine and background check.

My humble request is that the text of immigration legislation you are drafting should not keep out and punish somebody who came to country legally while reward the one who came illegally. At least the legal “already inside” US should get the same reward as you are giving the illegal “already inside” US.

Thank you,

With regards,
XYZ”
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 07:48 PM
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Default Best immigration reform for US graudates

I think the best immigration reform is to cover all types of graduates as below:

1) All STEM graduates within US get green cards (the ones have F-1, H-1B, EB visa).

2) All STEM graduates outside US get green cards. (the US graduates back to home countries several years ago due to getting stuck in H-1B process such as
quota was full or laid off during H-1B)

3) All health professional doctoral degree students within or outside US get green cards.
(Georgia State or most other States only issue health professional licenses to green
card people but they still accept foreign students to enter health professional schools
but do NOT issue green card to those who graduated. Those graduates back home
without US licenses and cannot take the licensing exam in their home countries and
cannot get medical jobs in their home countries. The health professional degrees they
have in US are totally wasted. In Canada, all health professional students have green
cards )

Hope someone can turn in this proposals to Senators or Congress people for completely fix the broken immigration system.
Thanks a lot !!
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 07:52 PM
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Default The Best immigration reform

I think the best immigration reform is to cover all types of graduates as below:

1) All STEM graduates within US get green cards (the ones have F-1, H-1B, EB visa).

2) All STEM graduates outside US get green cards. (the US graduates back to home
countries several years ago due to getting stuck in H-1B process such as
quota was full or laid off during H-1B)

3) All health professional doctoral degree students within or outside US get green cards.
(Georgia State or most other States only issue health professional licenses to green
card people but they still accept foreign students to enter health professional schools
but do NOT issue green card to those who graduated. Those graduates back home
without US licenses and cannot take the licensing exam in their home countries and
cannot get medical jobs in their home countries. The health professional degrees they
have in US are totally wasted. In Canada, all health professional students have green
cards )
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2012, 08:55 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by honest123 View Post
I think the best immigration reform is to cover all types of graduates as below:

1) All STEM graduates within US get green cards (the ones have F-1, H-1B, EB visa).

2) All STEM graduates outside US get green cards. (the US graduates back to home
countries several years ago due to getting stuck in H-1B process such as
quota was full or laid off during H-1B)

3) All health professional doctoral degree students within or outside US get green cards.
(Georgia State or most other States only issue health professional licenses to green
card people but they still accept foreign students to enter health professional schools
but do NOT issue green card to those who graduated. Those graduates back home
without US licenses and cannot take the licensing exam in their home countries and
cannot get medical jobs in their home countries. The health professional degrees they
have in US are totally wasted. In Canada, all health professional students have green
cards )
it is better to add only one rule rather then trying to add so many. and that is " Every Indian should get green card once they apply for any visa from INIDA or anywhere."
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:38 PM
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quasar81 is infamous around these parts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetflyer View Post
it is better to add only one rule rather then trying to add so many. and that is " Every Indian should get green card once they apply for any visa from INIDA or anywhere."
Yes, Indians should be able to apply for GC once they cross the border.

If a mexican can cross border illegally and apply for get green card without going through crap of EB/PERM/LABOR, etc - why dont an indian who crossed border legally just do so.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:50 PM
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Quasar81, did you get a reply to your email yet? It has been 1 month. What are you doing? You need to get this passed ASAP? Please provide updates.
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:54 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by honest123 View Post
I think the best immigration reform is to cover all types of graduates as below:

1) All STEM graduates within US get green cards (the ones have F-1, H-1B, EB visa).

2) All STEM graduates outside US get green cards. (the US graduates back to home
countries several years ago due to getting stuck in H-1B process such as
quota was full or laid off during H-1B)

3) All health professional doctoral degree students within or outside US get green cards.
(Georgia State or most other States only issue health professional licenses to green
card people but they still accept foreign students to enter health professional schools
but do NOT issue green card to those who graduated. Those graduates back home
without US licenses and cannot take the licensing exam in their home countries and
cannot get medical jobs in their home countries. The health professional degrees they
have in US are totally wasted. In Canada, all health professional students have green
cards )
Let me guess. You are a healthcare professional from GA. How about you get a bill passed only for your application. There is something called a private bill if you do not know.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:45 PM
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Default Immigration Reform 2013 discussions:H1B and F1, not for EB folks

In reply to imH1B member, you said "I guess you are health professional from GA"----this guess is normal but I am NOT. I hope to see those health professionals get the green card because I have some friends study health professional degrees in doctorate or in master degrees in US. During their OPT, they can't finish the enough internship hours prior licensing exam in US and without US license bring back to their home countries, they can't take the licensing exam in their home countries. And without health licenses in their home countries, they can't have medical jobs in their home countries. Their health professional degrees are wasted. It is because the training in US is NOT finished (but the academic degree itself is graduated). The problem is that they don't have US green card to extend their stay in US to finish enough internship hours prior US licensing exam (because some graduates get the internship earlier and some get later and don't have enough time to finish during their OPT 1 year period). Also, most States ONLY issue health professional license to US green card people. Some finished the internship prior licensing exam and get the employer sponsored H-1B visa for jobs and then transit to licensing exam but unluckily the visa was processed on the day the quota was full and then can't renewal US driver licenses and US driver licenses are the ID for those health licensing exam. Every situation I mentioned above is that they don't have the US health professional licenses and can't have medical jobs in their home countries (because no US license, no exam in their home countries)

But if they have US green card, those problems can be solved automatically and those graduates will have better future. Also, in Canada, all health professionals must have Canadian permanent residency and in UK, Australia and New Zealand are the same too. Those countries ONLY grant health professional licenses to their own green card people. Also, those foreign health professional graduates only occupy a very small percentage population in each class because all health professionals are screened very strictly in their educational qualification prior admission to US health professional degrees especially in master or in doctorate level.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:23 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quasar81 View Post
Why should a guy who illegally crossed the border 2 or 3 or 4 years back and started working illegally in US be able to pay few fines and file for GC, while a guy(F1 and H1) who legally crossed border 2 or 3 or 4 years back have to go through extra steps of finding employers, going through PERM, extra fees, job advertisements, etc etc to file for GC. Why can’t he just go stand in line, pay a fee and file for GC. It is clear that being illegal is an advantage at this point.
Totally false statement. It is not about legals and illegals, it is about strength of the group and the unity within the group. Illegals are an enormous group and thus a huge vote bank, not to mention that majority of the guys are from Mexico and Illegals have solid and active support from the Latino US citizenry. Compare that to our group; a few 100 thousands at the max divided based on EB categories, unwilling to spend a dime on any advocacy effort. Not to mention once one of us becomes a citizen or a green card holder, he starts staunchly opposing this Employment based GC. We do not need any one to work against us, we just need to be left on our own and we will take care of each other. Ever heard of the "Indian Crab" story where a bucket full of Crabs was left open without a lid and when asked about it was told "these are Indian crabs, they are going to pull each other down, hence the assurance that none of them would be able to come out of the lid-less bucket".
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasar81 View Post

What people like me on H1B and F1 who don’t have EB in process yet would like to do is to go stand in line with illegals and apply for Adjustment of Status(AOS) filing for GC. This has multiple advantages:
1) Immediate EAD to work for any employer legally
2) no employer to find or beg to start the garbage PERM process,
3) no employer dependence and need to stick with single employer at low wages
4) no fear of layoffs to end the process and START the whole thing anew. This is usually biggest nightmare in this economy



I request all those who don’t have EB process started yet to send emails to their senators and congressmen that they should be treated equally and better than the guy who came here illegally. Below is sample. ACT NOW....
Again wrong approach, the best thing that one can do is move to Mexico, get a citizenship there and then illegally cross the border and come to US. You will be able to get GC pretty quickly that way.

"You only deserve the rights that you are willing to fight for".

Note: Sending emails does not count as a fight.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
Totally false statement. It is not about legals and illegals, it is about strength of the group and the unity within the group. Illegals are an enormous group and thus a huge vote bank, not to mention that majority of the guys are from Mexico and Illegals have solid and active support from the Latino US citizenry. Compare that to our group; a few 100 thousands at the max divided based on EB categories, unwilling to spend a dime on any advocacy effort. Not to mention once one of us becomes a citizen or a green card holder, he starts staunchly opposing this Employment based GC. We do not need any one to work against us, we just need to be left on our own and we will take care of each other. Ever heard of the "Indian Crab" story where a bucket full of Crabs was left open without a lid and when asked about it was told "these are Indian crabs, they are going to pull each other down, hence the assurance that none of them would be able to come out of the lid-less bucket".

Again wrong approach, the best thing that one can do is move to Mexico, get a citizenship there and then illegally cross the border and come to US. You will be able to get GC pretty quickly that way.

"You only deserve the rights that you are willing to fight for".

Note: Sending emails does not count as a fight.
And before I am attacked for not contributing myself, I have so far donated 400 bucks for HR 3012 and made at least 20 people aware of HR 3012, not sure how much they contributed. Too bad there has not been any advocacy day here on east coast since I joined this forum.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:08 AM
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Not to discourage anybody but Looks like a post from somebody who got emotionally burnt recently. All of us have gone through this frustration and have come up with even better arguments on how to tackle this issue. The bottom line is: it simply will not work. The only way we can do something is as a group and actually that is toughest part isn't it??
If you can get a majority of the local community (greened/citizen Indian/chinese folks) to support your idea then yes there is a remote possibility otherwise a bunch of H1bs randomly writing letters to senators will not do any good.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:55 AM
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We should forgive the person who wrote the first post on this thread. There are many among us who have such views and are naive. The other day I came across someone who has spent a couple of years on IV forums asa freeloader and armchair critic, and still arguing about the importance of signing online petitions and sending emails. It seems a lot of people waste time on forums and completely unaware of how politics works in this country. Having many degrees and earning high does not mean someone is good in understanding the system of the country and advocacy. Why do you see so many posts of people being exploited by employers, ignorant about the system and spending lot of money on lawyers even to ask simple questions?

The original poster probably just came to the country and has a personal situation in his visa. Once he spends a few more years and spends time understanding how bills are passed he will laugh at his suggestion of sending junk emails.

He is posting derogatory remarks for undocumented. But he does not know that these undocumented are far more better than documented folks when it comes to standing up for oneself and getting things done. If CIR happens and there is a provision for him, it will be due to the big push by these undocumented not because of some junk emails he is drafting. So if he really wants to get some relief, better start talking to organizations for undocumented and documented and see how he can work with everyone and fix the system.

By working I do not mean sending them emails and outsourcing his work for free. But actually spending his resources and valuable time away from work and family to get a fix done. It could take years to even make small progress on something. Bills or admin fixes do not get passed overnight or by writing ideas of immigration forums. It takes lot of commitment and personal sacrifices. There is a long line in DC of many people and organizations and they are waiting for many years to just get a bill introduced. Getting a bill voted and passed in both houses is another big effort. It's not that easy as you think through your emails or posting ideas on the forums. Nothing can be achieved by being a freeloader and expecting others to work for you. Each person has to jump in, share the load and contribute their time and resources in a community to make any advocacy push. This is the only one and only way for community driven advocacy.

But my fear is by the time he understands how things work he will be out of his F1 visa and H1B visa and working to get 485 filing or on EAD. At that time he will forget about helping his old cause of helping people on F1 and H1 and only care about recapture or country limit removal kinds of fixes and ask IV to help. And once you get your greencard, you will forget people behind you.

Sorry to be blunt but this is the sorry state of affairs of many of us who call themselves as high skills, high educated, high earning folks. But they still want to be freeloaders and talk about funny ideas like sending emails. Some even have the audacity to claim how important they are to the country and if they all go back something bad will happen. They forget that if 5 go back 10 more are able and willing from around the world to come in if they get a visa to work as an H1B temporary worker. They forget they are a tiny minority in the bigger debate on immigration.

There was no intention to personally attack the OP for his views, but using his post to post a general observation for many in our community. This is the reason why immigration fix will always be difficult for high skilled folks.
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Last edited by pappu; 12-28-2012 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:04 PM
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Lately I had been thinking why people from the most retrogressed category and country do not really stand up in large numbers for themselves and express their suffering in public.

To look deeply one has to go back in time and see how India as a country has been under a colonial rule for hundreds of years. The feudal system, ugly bureaucratic system, corruption, isolation of elite political class from the common man etc have made people hopeless and adapt to their hopeless system. This system has suppressed innovation and growth of a common man. Even if the country becomes a superpower it will be on paper while a large population will struggle in poverty, villages and people will find it hard to keep up with rising prices.

It is this lack of standing up for oneself the real problem even with advocacy here. If the wait time can be in decades for EB3 why is it only few people complain? Why only a couple thousand come and march on the streets when there are tens of thousands? Are people happy with their wait times? That is not true because there are thousands of posts on the forums where people complain and narrate their stories as anonymous voices.

The fact is we want someone else to do work for us while we want to sit in our homes and enjoy movies and party. Why is it people like Anna and Kejriwal who have decided to do something do not get much support? In the last Anna protest only a couple thousand showed up from a country of one billion and it was a failure. Why the entire Delhi if not north India show up? The entire Delhi was busy enjoying shopping in Malls and watching spicy 'Breaking News' on TV and only few were left to stay hungry for a cause. Others just wanted to watch the spectacle. In the recent days why the entire town did not show up at India Gate and show the outrage against the heinous crime? This is why the country will find it hard to get positive changes and continue to be ruined by the political class.

We are from the same society and is the reason we fail to stand up against unfairness and injustice. We do not show up for rallies and advocacy days. But if there is a musical nite of Bollywood superstars, people will pay hundreds to go and see them from a distance. These same people will complain that $25 is too high a contribution for them to afford.

The common man only sees from his narrow lens and if he is not being affected, he will not care. Likewise People who get greencard and citizenship do not want to look back and help. Even for fixes people only look at what will personally help their application instead trying to fix a broken system.

This new year as I look back I ask this to myself what will awaken the rest and change the attitude of people from our community. Over the years this effort has grown a lot and that is a positive sign. People have changed their attitude and many are committed. We need to spread this around and get more people involved in our friend circle, relatives, colleagues etc.

Getting a fix done is not really hard. We have made it hard to get by not working for it.
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Last edited by pappu; 12-28-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:07 PM
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The EB immigrant community in the US compared to other countries (like canada/australia etc) inherently has qualities that make it difficult for a coalition to form. Here most of us came by ourselves directly through employers or through educational institutions. Mostly we had our goals already set. We therefore tend to be more isolated except for some particular occupations like IT. In other countries most immigrate as skilled/family and are thrown into the system totally helpless. Lot of mutual dependence is necessary in these countries to get job and settle which forges great unity among the immigrants. That is not the case in US. Hopefully, with IVs growing influence there could be a platform for unity but it needs tremendous commitment, vision and patience. So far I think the core group has been able to show these traits which is greatly appreciated by folks here Lets hope for a bright 2013 even though it seems cloudy and snowy and cold now.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashutrip View Post
Does anybody know if CIR makes any reference to Recapturing of unsed visas in EB Category or any other other relief for people caught in retrogression?
Which CIR are you referring to?

There was one a couple of years ago. Or you are talking about one that may or may not happen in future? There is no draft for that. If you want recapture included or any other fix you need to talk to lawmakers taking a lead on it. These fixes will not be added by default. There are also people on the hill talking about a points based system for sometime and scrapping the existing system. This points based system will be based on occupation, market needs ( this means reducing annual quota we have now if the unemployment is high in USA), US advanced degrees, close relatives in the country , salary, etc kind of criteria.
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Last edited by pappu; 12-28-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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