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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:22 AM
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My apologies for being one of the pessimists here. In my view, we all (EB2, EB3 etc) consciously got into an agreement with our employers and with that we agreed to get in line. It is up to the rule makers to address rule breakers.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_guy123 View Post
H1b are political orphans, there are no votes to be made there. So the issue will always be there. Also nobody guaranteed GC to H1B. These rules were unfair from the day one itself.
One can choose to accept it or leave US. If you are single, you can marry a USC and solve all these problems.

Its completely right that the Rules were unfair from the beginning does not mean we have to not fight them.
The moment you are allowed enter this country legally and pay taxes and work here, you become entitled to a fair treatment.

But here you are suggesting that we have only two options .. 1. either leave country 2. Suck it up.

When in fact, in this country you actually can fight for what is right, even the DREAMERS can, why the hell cant we?
Let me ask you with this logic, where would the children of illegals go if they are told to leave? they dont have homes in other countries..

I have discussed this issue with our local lawmaker's offices several times last year and also during advocacy days in DC. in past They don't say suck it up or leave country! They do understand the kind of troubles immigrants go through. They do encourage you to fight for improvements even though right now we are not a vote bank. They still view us as constituents.

Its the fundamental right of a human being to fight for what is right. Not letting employers exploit you etc. and somebody is willing to fight nobody can tell them "Suck it up or Leave the country" at least not in the US!

Should Mahatma Gandhi not have protested for unfair and racist treatment towards people of color in SouthAfrica? should he have just sucked it up or left the country? He knew better than that as he was a barrister, He knew that its completely legal to fight and protest!!

You must have read about case of the Indian lady who lost her life due to out-dated and outrageous rules against abortion in Irland. Her husband is fighting for changing the rules there to save other innocent lives, and many Irish lawmakers are supporting his efforts. Should we tell him to suck it up or leave the country since he is an immigrant??

If you dont want to help out in the cause dont do it, but dont try to discourage some people who are fighting please!
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
My apologies for being one of the pessimists here. In my view, we all (EB2, EB3 etc) consciously got into an agreement with our employers and with that we agreed to get in line. It is up to the rule makers to address rule breakers.
Yes we agreed to get in line, were you told how many years you will have to wait?
If I am building a house for you will you accept me as a builder if I give you indefinite timeline?

and without us making the lawmakers aware of the reality and the real issues we are facing, how the are they supposed to make fair rules? For a huge country like US , even the bills that are most logical, not related to immigration, which affect the current citizens require considerable lobbying effort to be able to reach law makers.

Do you think without immigrants voicing their issues, the law makers will even know what wait times we face ? Will they be able to know that on EAD it takes 3 moths to get Advance Parole document. If you have a medical emergency in India and you are needed the next day by side of your parents, you wont be able to go due do the fact that documents take 3 months. Do you think any wise and Human person would say "SO what" to this situation?
A lot of law maker's offices don't even know that there is EB2 and EB3 let alone the law maker himself.
A lot of them don't even know that there is a thing called "visa vBulletin" which we die for every week.

So even if its up-to them to make or break the rule, it is solely our responsibility to reach out to them and voice our problems.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhakaldoo View Post
Its completely right that the Rules were unfair from the beginning does not mean we have to not fight them.
The moment you are allowed enter this country legally and pay taxes and work here, you become entitled to a fair treatment.

But here you are suggesting that we have only two options .. 1. either leave country 2. Suck it up.

When in fact, in this country you actually can fight for what is right, even the DREAMERS can, why the hell cant we?
Let me ask you with this logic, where would the children of illegals go if they are told to leave? they dont have homes in other countries..

I have discussed this issue with our local lawmaker's offices several times last year and also during advocacy days in DC. in past They don't say suck it up or leave country! They do understand the kind of troubles immigrants go through. They do encourage you to fight for improvements even though right now we are not a vote bank. They still view us as constituents.

Its the fundamental right of a human being to fight for what is right. Not letting employers exploit you etc. and somebody is willing to fight nobody can tell them "Suck it up or Leave the country" at least not in the US!

Should Mahatma Gandhi not have protested for unfair and racist treatment towards people of color in SouthAfrica? should he have just sucked it up or left the country? He knew better than that as he was a barrister, He knew that its completely legal to fight and protest!!

You must have read about case of the Indian lady who lost her life due to out-dated and outrageous rules against abortion in Irland. Her husband is fighting for changing the rules there to save other innocent lives, and many Irish lawmakers are supporting his efforts. Should we tell him to suck it up or leave the country since he is an immigrant??

If you dont want to help out in the cause dont do it, but dont try to discourage some people who are fighting please!
And we do that through IV. However, even after repeated efforts, if our voices aren't being heard, what does it convey?
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
And we do that through IV. However, even after repeated efforts, if our voices aren't being heard, what does it convey?
To me only thing it conveys it, we need to speak LOUDER. These are grass root effort, every single one of us have to chip in and do our part.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
And we do that through IV. However, even after repeated efforts, if our voices aren't being heard, what does it convey?
How many years do you think IV is working? It was only founded in 2006-07. It got publicity only in past year because to 3012. So when you say repeated efforts its only been 2-3 yrs of real lobbying for 3012

Did you know that there is an agricultural lobbyist group which has been lobbing for one bill for past 10 years in interest of the farmers who are citizens and will be greatly affected by this bill?

What makes you think that we have done enough "repeated" efforts? Look at the Dreamers. they lobbied there day and night. not just the people who are affected but also other people from their community.

Here I tell my green card holder Indian acquaintances ( yes I dont like to call them my friends) to support the cause they look at me like I am Amway Agent muttering under their breath that we don't need any more Indians here!

I did a letter signature campaign to show support to this bill, I got more signatures from my american colleagues than my Indian colleges who are green card holders or are waiting for green cards. One 2nd generation immigrant Indian even told me that there are too many Indians here! He forgot that his parents were also immigrants and at that time too there were too many Indians here where, another Nepali second generation immigrant girl read the letter and signed it immediately cuz she said she believes in doing whats right!!!

We have a loooooong way to go buddy. Our battle is not only fighting the unjust system,, its our own people we have to fight the most! God only help us changing mind sets of our own clan!
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hx82 View Post
To me only thing it conveys it, we need to speak LOUDER. These are grass root effort, every single one of us have to chip in and do our part.
Thats the Spirit!!!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:31 PM
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Very well said dhakaldoo
With more people like yourself as members we will definitely succeed.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhakaldoo View Post
How many years do you think IV is working? It was only founded in 2006-07. It got publicity only in past year because to 3012. So when you say repeated efforts its only been 2-3 yrs of real lobbying for 3012

Did you know that there is an agricultural lobbyist group which has been lobbing for one bill for past 10 years in interest of the farmers who are citizens and will be greatly affected by this bill?

What makes you think that we have done enough "repeated" efforts? Look at the Dreamers. they lobbied there day and night. not just the people who are affected but also other people from their community.

Here I tell my green card holder Indian acquaintances ( yes I dont like to call them my friends) to support the cause they look at me like I am Amway Agent muttering under their breath that we don't need any more Indians here!

I did a letter signature campaign to show support to this bill, I got more signatures from my american colleagues than my Indian colleges who are green card holders or are waiting for green cards. One 2nd generation immigrant Indian even told me that there are too many Indians here! He forgot that his parents were also immigrants and at that time too there were too many Indians here where, another Nepali second generation immigrant girl read the letter and signed it immediately cuz she said she believes in doing whats right!!!

We have a loooooong way to go buddy. Our battle is not only fighting the unjust system,, its our own people we have to fight the most! God only help us changing mind sets of our own clan!
I agree on the lobbying part. Thats why many of us support IV. Its not just for my application. Its to find a just model for every legal immigrant.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:52 PM
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Stem bills debate in Senate ( eventually went to dustbin )

Watch from 2.41

Senate Session - C-SPAN Video Library
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_guy123 View Post
H1b are political orphans, there are no votes to be made there. So the issue will always be there. Also nobody guaranteed GC to H1B. These rules were unfair from the day one itself.
One can choose to accept it or leave US. If you are single, you can marry a USC and solve all these problems.
Well, its the other way round, H1B ( dual intent visa ) has a guaranteed path to GC. Choose to accept or leave is not that easily done. Put up a board saying GC will take 10years or we donot know when you will get it , then watch how discouraging it will be for H1B aspirants. We plan based on the time it takes to LC->GC journey. it was 4-5 years in 2002 which was doable. Now its over 15years, Not doable. Law makers say "is it?" and they wont say "Go and marry a USC".
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sanju_dba View Post
I second that!
I second that too!!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by immigrant2007 View Post
I don't blame you for judging me and my intentions based on my comments and painting them anti apathy. That's the best you can do. I don't need to defend myself or my viewpoint as you are free to express your opinion so relax and think what I am trying to ask or say? My question will still remain that is it ok to break law in US and then be pardoned by redefining the law what is the purpose of making laws in that case? US doesn't owe me anything but the immigration department owes us all non immigrants transparency in their process (basic information how many GCs were awarded in each category to each country in last 15 years and how were those GC application made, EB , family or 245i). How can they approve labor of people from PERM process in 2005 when there were people from old process still waiting (Its like making a new line and telling the people in old line to stand at the back of the new line). Don't paint my question as anti people. Start help line for helping undocumented I will match your efforts. My question if about effectiveness and fairness of immigration process.
I second that too!! (Sorry avoid my previous post)
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhakaldoo View Post
How many years do you think IV is working? It was only founded in 2006-07. It got publicity only in past year because to 3012. So when you say repeated efforts its only been 2-3 yrs of real lobbying for 3012

Did you know that there is an agricultural lobbyist group which has been lobbing for one bill for past 10 years in interest of the farmers who are citizens and will be greatly affected by this bill?

What makes you think that we have done enough "repeated" efforts? Look at the Dreamers. they lobbied there day and night. not just the people who are affected but also other people from their community.

Here I tell my green card holder Indian acquaintances ( yes I dont like to call them my friends) to support the cause they look at me like I am Amway Agent muttering under their breath that we don't need any more Indians here!

I did a letter signature campaign to show support to this bill, I got more signatures from my american colleagues than my Indian colleges who are green card holders or are waiting for green cards. One 2nd generation immigrant Indian even told me that there are too many Indians here! He forgot that his parents were also immigrants and at that time too there were too many Indians here where, another Nepali second generation immigrant girl read the letter and signed it immediately cuz she said she believes in doing whats right!!!

We have a loooooong way to go buddy. Our battle is not only fighting the unjust system,, its our own people we have to fight the most! God only help us changing mind sets of our own clan!
Well said dhakaldoo,

Agree we are unable to convince our own people, how do we expect others going to help without pursuing.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hx82 View Post
To me only thing it conveys it, we need to speak LOUDER. These are grass root effort, every single one of us have to chip in and do our part.
I agree with hx82. Everyone has to be on same page,can not fight with each other and blame each other. People take advantage of that. We went through that in our country 60+ years ago. So let's just focus on H.R. 3012 only. GO IV.
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