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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bond4u View Post
I even more surprised by Neeraj Gupta who used H1b himself painted everyone else as low skill worker. His target was TCS, Infosys and Wipro so his Start up do not face competition from them. Most disheartening to see that he targeted Indian H1b visa holder in whole testimony.
This is difference between US where they celebrate each other success and other side we envy or don't want other to succeed thats why we see Eb2 vs Eb3 etc.
That was really sad. Mr. Gupta needs to see H1Bs that are working in highly specialized fields and he will know how that is useful. Also, if his beef is with TCS/Wipro etc, he can easily take it up with Chamber of Commerce and the Trade Commission for Unfair Competition issues. Like Mr. Smith from Microsoft said, use the proper channels to address the business models of these firms.

Well it is a known truth (albeit hardly ever acknowledged) that we do suffer from crabs in a basket tendency and we typically look down upon our own especially in the immigrant community. I am glad there are platforms like IV where issues are highlighted and efforts are made to address them.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 10:17 AM
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Default Why we should not oppose the demand to clean up H1B visa

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Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
That was really sad. Mr. Gupta needs to see H1Bs that are working in highly specialized fields and he will know how that is useful. Also, if his beef is with TCS/Wipro etc, he can easily take it up with Chamber of Commerce and the Trade Commission for Unfair Competition issues. Like Mr. Smith from Microsoft said, use the proper channels to address the business models of these firms.

Well it is a known truth (albeit hardly ever acknowledged) that we do suffer from crabs in a basket tendency and we typically look down upon our own especially in the immigrant community. I am glad there are platforms like IV where issues are highlighted and efforts are made to address them.
Can we say for sure that these big and small consulting companies:

1) Pay Market rate salaries.
2) Make honest efforts to hire Americans first
3) Do not charge employees for immigration fees
4) Most backlog from India is not because of many Indians from these companies.
5) Most employees from these companies are not undergraduates or doing jobs that only require an undergraduate degree
6) Reports of exploitation on forums, lawsuits and DOL are not mostly from these companies
7) These companies are not causing outsourcing by 'shadowing' American employees at work and then taking business back to India.
8) They do not file most H1Bs of H4 visa holders who are not even engineers but B.Com and B.A. for positions like QA testers.
9) The reports of benching and not paying are not from these companies.
10) Majority of substituted labors are not from these companies
11) The prevailing wage is filed in one state that has lower salary but the employee is not sent to a site that has a higher wage.
12) Most cases of salary not given after the employer has left the company, unreasonable contracts holding the employee's freedom are not from these companies.
13) These companies are at the cutting edge of innovation and are producing products that are game changers for the industry.


Can anyone prove that any of the dirty 13 points above are incorrect. I will take back my support to the demand of cleaning up immigration system in the bigger interest of this nation.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 10:47 AM
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Default High skilled vs low skilled

These two idiots Ron Hira and Neeraj illustrate that if H1B is working at Google and Microsoft are only high skilled H1b, rest are low skilled jobs which any american can do it.

I can not believe myself senate has invited people like these anti-immigration duos.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by keyurpatel80 View Post
These two idiots Ron Hira and Neeraj illustrate that if H1B is working at Google and Microsoft are only high skilled H1b, rest are low skilled jobs which any american can do it.

I can not believe myself senate has invited people like these anti-immigration duos.
They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by imh1b View Post
They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.
I do agree. We have to reach out to them and see how we can negotiate our terms and provisions. But I certainly disagree with them "Except Microsoft and Google H-1Bs, rest are low skilled" highly disappointing.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:05 AM
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We should have point by point rebuttal of criticism of H1B program by the anti-immigrant views expressed by Prof. Ron Hira and Neeraj Gupta. If some points are correct we should agree and offer suggestions to fix it. If we win these people to our side, we can get support for greencard effort. H1B is a problem visa because it is a restricted visa unlike a greencard. Greencard is a solution to all problems of H1B.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by imh1b View Post
We should have point by point rebuttal of criticism of H1B program by the anti-immigrant views expressed by Prof. Ron Hira and Neeraj Gupta. If some points are correct we should agree and offer suggestions to fix it. If we win these people to our side, we can get support for greencard effort. H1B is a problem visa because it is a restricted visa unlike a greencard. Greencard is a solution to all problems of H1B.
any idea when they will discuss about backlog of employment based visa ? I did not see they discuss about this.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by keyurpatel80 View Post
These two idiots Ron Hira and Neeraj illustrate that if H1B is working at Google and Microsoft are only high skilled H1b, rest are low skilled jobs which any american can do it.

I can not believe myself senate has invited people like these anti-immigration duos.
They are not idiots. They have their facts in place. This system is clearly broken. What they stated in the testimony was not incorrect. Remember it is a Senate testimony. You cannot make random claims without corroborating such claims with facts and figures. They would not have been invited if they were not credible. It is a true testimony of this nation's democracy. Pro and Anti immigration views were heard yesterday.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
They are not idiots. They have their facts in place. This system is clearly broken. What they stated in the testimony was not incorrect. Remember it is a Senate testimony. You cannot make random claims without corroborating such claims with facts and figures. They would not have been invited if they were not credible. It is a true testimony of this nation's democracy. Pro and Anti immigration views were heard yesterday.
so if you are not working in Google of Microsoft and you are on h1b, do you consider yourself low skilled worked ?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by keyurpatel80 View Post
so if you are not working in Google of Microsoft and you are on h1b, do you consider yourself low skilled worked ?
It is not for you or me to interpret and apply to ourselves personally. It is for the purpose of drafting a law. A law of a nation. And all voices need to be heard for that purpose. I am merely stating that it helps nobody's position by calling someone an idiot.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bond4u View Post
I even more surprised by Neeraj Gupta who used H1b himself painted everyone else as low skill worker. His target was TCS, Infosys and Wipro so his Start up do not face competition from them. Most disheartening to see that he targeted Indian H1b visa holder in whole testimony.
This is difference between US where they celebrate each other success and other side we envy or don't want other to succeed thats why we see Eb2 vs Eb3 etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imh1b View Post
They are respectable people. None of us have reached their level or higher in our profession. One is a professor of a reputed University and another one is a CEO of a big company. Even if we disagree we should not be cursing them. It only belittle us more. If we disagree, should we not contact them and talk to them? Are there any IV members from that University? or IV members who work for that company? They can go and discuss and give better suggestions.
I totally agree with bond4u. When I heard the testimony of Mr. Neeraj Gupta, he has mentioned that H1B has nothing to do with high skilled workers but more to do with economics. I say this, his testimony has nothing to do with correcting the system, but with economics of his newly found company. He mentioned that the jbos performed by people on H1B can also be done by Americans who has associate degrees, not even computer science degrees are requied. How is this going to help increase wages for American workers? He just want to do the same thing Infosys, Wipro is doing by employing low skilled, lowly payed Americans with just associate degrees. But his concept only works, if these Indian companies won't get H1Bs and there is huge shortage in the market. Only then people can accept someone with associate degree and not so skilled to do the job.

Way to go Mr. Neeraj Gupta. That is economics for you all.

It is really sad to see such a testimony. Mr. Neeraj Gupta he himself was a beneficiary of H1B, and also might have gotten his green card from one of these companies he is opposing now. Why hasn't he complained to USCIS and asked his company to withdraw his green card petition because the job he was doing was not so special and anybody with an associate degree can do the same. If he has gotten his green card in some other means, then I would like to withdraw this paragraph.

One of firend used to make more money 10 years ago with 2 years of experience during Y2k, dot com buble. People used to charge $4000 to $5000, to develop a static web page. Now you can do it yourself for free if you chose google apps or some other thing like that. So should we ban google apps or others also as they are lowering american workers wages. Also please remember what happened to the manufacturing sector. If at all Infosys and Wipro contribute to lowering the wages, and if we put restrictions on them, all the jobs might end up in India.

Also like Mr. Smith from Microsoft said, these firms are doing some very good things as well in certain areas.

Another question I have to Mr. Neeraj Gupta is who will give the training to these people with associate degrees, companies, government or will Mr. Neeraj Gupta himself will start training centers across America?

Again the bottom line: Its all economics, and economics that are good for Mr. Gupta.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
It is not for you or me to interpret and apply to ourselves personally. It is for the purpose of drafting a law. A law of a nation. And all voices need to be heard for that purpose. I am merely stating that it helps nobody's position by calling someone an idiot.
if they are convincing senate that most of jobs are low skilled, senate may start eliminate green card to H1B with their newly found term "low skilled". Why to give GC to "low skilled worker" ?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by keyurpatel80 View Post
if they are convincing senate that most of jobs are low skilled, senate may start eliminate green card to H1B with their newly found term "low skilled". Why to give GC to "low skilled worker" ?
Lets not pretend to be chicken littles. Calm down. The sky is not falling. Fortunately, Senate is not driven entirely by emotion or anti- or pro- talking points. They are driven by making the immigration process better. Better for the people involved, for business, for the laws of the country etc but still minimize fraud. H1B abuse was the focal point.

For every Ron Hira/Neeraj Gupta, there was a Grover Norquist who was talking about the richness of the society's fabric brought about by high-skilled immigrants. As much as I have heard, there was no attempt to re-define H1B. Of course, if you are a developer in a managed services environment, the expectation of innovation from you is lower than someone working as a developer in Google. However, in a managed services environment, your role may be mission critical and hence "high-skilled" but not irreplaceable. It is all a matter of interpretation. No one is redefining the H1Bs. They are attempting to minimize the loopholes.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:56 AM
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...And I think Neeraj Gupta missed that point. Innovation is not the only business motivator. People are needed to keep existing businesses operational and the wheels of the economy running. And for that H1Bs may be required given the lack of supply of existing American high-skilled labor (Many would dispute this theory too).
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:23 PM
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A very sensible post. I agree that the senate hearings are driven with the right agenda and goal. They are meant to help shape the laws to be fair for Americans and future Americans. We do need to partake in the process using IV platform to present our views and situations as future Americans.

However I feel it is also important to discuss the anti H1B views expressed. I personally disagree with most of Ron Hira's views simply because he comes across as anti immigrant in general but I do see some valid claims about H1B abuse that can be corrected not just for American workers but also for the employees in those firms.

Now Neeraj Gupta is a different case. His claim of having seen the abuse comes across as hypocritical and very opportunistic given his current business. Any respect for his business acumen and ability to create jobs for Americans is lost in his blatant attempts at reducing competition for his own good. Not to mention having leveraged the same opportunities he is trying to deny future young H1B workers to come to the US, work legally and hard to have a better life. Shallow and Selfish are some of the adjectives that come to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pd052011 View Post
Lets not pretend to be chicken littles. Calm down. The sky is not falling. Fortunately, Senate is not driven entirely by emotion or anti- or pro- talking points. They are driven by making the immigration process better. Better for the people involved, for business, for the laws of the country etc but still minimize fraud. H1B abuse was the focal point.

For every Ron Hira/Neeraj Gupta, there was a Grover Norquist who was talking about the richness of the society's fabric brought about by high-skilled immigrants. As much as I have heard, there was no attempt to re-define H1B. Of course, if you are a developer in a managed services environment, the expectation of innovation from you is lower than someone working as a developer in Google. However, in a managed services environment, your role may be mission critical and hence "high-skilled" but not irreplaceable. It is all a matter of interpretation. No one is redefining the H1Bs. They are attempting to minimize the loopholes.
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