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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by waitingnwaiting View Post
It is not dangerous. We cannot close our eyes from reality and say everything is good with immigrants and employers. Many companies are good, but many are bad too for people who do not have green cards.

Almost all abuse of immigrant employees happen on non-immigrant visa. If you look at the salaries paid by such abusive employers you will find them lower than market wage. Ask your friends if you do not know. It may be as per DOL wage but DOL wage and prevailing wage in real market is different for bright people like us working for good companies. You will see that such consulting companies hire mostly Indians. Have you thought why. Even big desi consulting companies have 90% employees on L1 and H1 visa, 6% on EAD, 2% greencard and citizenship? It is because Indians have the highest waiting time for greencard. No other reason. If people from UK had highest waiting time in USA many employers would rather be interested in hiring only UK citizens. So in a way in the current scenario ROW is being discriminated in getting H1B jobs and their jobs are being given to Indians by companies. As immigrants we should stand up for what is good for immigrants.
Thanks for the explanation! Are there any more reasons?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
Thanks for the explanation! Are there any more reasons?
Are you still not convinced? I have spent valuable time for you. My client pays me more than $100 per hour. You can now at least contribute for the lobby day.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:24 PM
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Are you still not convinced? I have spent valuable time for you. My client pays me more than $100 per hour. You can now at least contribute for the lobby day.
I am sorry but you are right...I am not convinced. If, as an immigrant community, we are supposed to think about us (immigrant community) then why should I not just think about myself?

My stand is that in order to have some weight to what we say, we need to add numbers to our group. Increasing the H1B visa numbers is not necessarily a bad thing as it increases the output of US economy...this is the first part of the journey. Second part is converting the H1B holders into citizens and that has even better pay offs for US economy as people then start spending money on housing/cars instead of sending it back to India. The first part is taken care of by HR2131, we need numbers to convince law makers to act on second part. Part of the problem is that we are not a big enough group to make an impact (read a considerable vote bank). Once there are enough people in this mess and law makers see that with just one stroke of a brush they can win considerable votes, they will act on the second part. Not being able to do both parts in one go does not mean that we should not even start the journey. We can start it, achieve the first milestone..give it a break and then continue onto the second leg. Like I said this is my stand as of right now unless some one comes forward with any more reasons.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:36 PM
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A half baked solution is no solution at all. What we need now is to push for ALL our provisions to be included in the House version...similar to how most made it into the Senate version thanks to IVs collective efforts. Otherwise the late 1990s/early 2000s will repeat itself and the GC queue will only grow longer. Those of us who have been waiting for 5-10 years might scrape through in the next 3-5 years (maybe for EB2, still difficult for EB3). But think of how increased backlogs will make high-skilled immigrants lives even more miserable. There is no research or analysis needed, which is what you seem to indicate. The math is pretty clear...close to 195*2.2 new applicants to queue with only 50K added (with some caveats). Per-country limit will add fairness by re-adjusting the queue but that is not enough to reduce backlogs..it only means everyone will wait for several years.
What is being discussed now is a comprehensive bill...there is no next time to it..once the version agreed by the Senate and House is passed that is it.. that comprehensive bill will define the immigration system of the US for the next several decades. The time for piecemeal is gone (when the opportunity for piecemeal was there...IV tried hard with 3012 and almost succeeded...but then there was at least a slight possibility then for additional piecemeal bills to increase GC count, visa recapture, which is not the case now).
You are right about pushing Congress with more number of our ilk ...which is what the IV advocacy days are all about and which is where we convey (or remind..as this msg has been conveyed all along) that high-skilled immigration is not about H1B but GCs.. Do participate in it.

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Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
I am sorry but you are right...I am not convinced. If, as an immigrant community, we are supposed to think about us (immigrant community) then why should I not just think about myself?

My stand is that in order to have some weight to what we say, we need to add numbers to our group. Increasing the H1B visa numbers is not necessarily a bad thing as it increases the output of US economy...this is the first part of the journey. Second part is converting the H1B holders into citizens and that has even better pay offs for US economy as people then start spending money on housing/cars instead of sending it back to India. The first part is taken care of by HR2131, we need numbers to convince law makers to act on second part. Part of the problem is that we are not a big enough group to make an impact (read a considerable vote bank). Once there are enough people in this mess and law makers see that with just one stroke of a brush they can win considerable votes, they will act on the second part. Not being able to do both parts in one go does not mean that we should not even start the journey. We can start it, achieve the first milestone..give it a break and then continue onto the second leg. Like I said this is my stand as of right now unless some one comes forward with any more reasons.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
I am sorry but you are right...I am not convinced. If, as an immigrant community, we are supposed to think about us (immigrant community) then why should I not just think about myself?

My stand is that in order to have some weight to what we say, we need to add numbers to our group. Increasing the H1B visa numbers is not necessarily a bad thing as it increases the output of US economy...this is the first part of the journey. Second part is converting the H1B holders into citizens and that has even better pay offs for US economy as people then start spending money on housing/cars instead of sending it back to India. The first part is taken care of by HR2131, we need numbers to convince law makers to act on second part. Part of the problem is that we are not a big enough group to make an impact (read a considerable vote bank). Once there are enough people in this mess and law makers see that with just one stroke of a brush they can win considerable votes, they will act on the second part. Not being able to do both parts in one go does not mean that we should not even start the journey. We can start it, achieve the first milestone..give it a break and then continue onto the second leg. Like I said this is my stand as of right now unless some one comes forward with any more reasons.
So you want Congress to increase H1B quota now. And when backlog becomes as big as 300 years, we try again with all new H1bs to get more greencard. Next CIR maybe after 10 years. So we should wait until 10 years for round 2?

May I ask why do you even care to ask for reasons and be convinced. You are EB2 with 2010 PD. You will get your greencard soon. What is the latest prediction?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 07:33 PM
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Gutierrez: I’ve got 40-50 GOP votes for immigration reform
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
I am sorry but you are right...I am not convinced. If, as an immigrant community, we are supposed to think about us (immigrant community) then why should I not just think about myself?

My stand is that in order to have some weight to what we say, we need to add numbers to our group. Increasing the H1B visa numbers is not necessarily a bad thing as it increases the output of US economy...this is the first part of the journey. Second part is converting the H1B holders into citizens and that has even better pay offs for US economy as people then start spending money on housing/cars instead of sending it back to India. The first part is taken care of by HR2131, we need numbers to convince law makers to act on second part. Part of the problem is that we are not a big enough group to make an impact (read a considerable vote bank). Once there are enough people in this mess and law makers see that with just one stroke of a brush they can win considerable votes, they will act on the second part. Not being able to do both parts in one go does not mean that we should not even start the journey. We can start it, achieve the first milestone..give it a break and then continue onto the second leg. Like I said this is my stand as of right now unless some one comes forward with any more reasons.
Let me try to explain this. We are not supporting increasing or decreasing H1B. But what we are saying is if you increase H1b, increase green card by proper ratio. Dependents are not counted in H1b but when they apply for the green card, they are counted. Average dependents for person applying for green card was 2.2. So, if H1 is increased to 195k, we need at least double of green cards just to match the demand. This won't take care of existing backlog which exists. Today's backlog that we are seeing is the result of increased H1 during 1999 to 2003 when H1bs were increased without increase in green card. Just those 4 years were enough to create this backlog. Imagine what would happen if this is made permanent. Again, we are not saying that we do not want H1b increased. All we are saying is, if you are increasing H1, increase green card at least 2 times of H1B just to match demand. Now, those who are waiting for adjustment of status would be benefited shortly because of per country removal and few thousand additional green cards. But that is very short term. In medium to long run as green card backlog increases, it is going to affect those who will be coming new and those who would have green cards by that time. After 1986, for the first time, we are as close to immigration bill as we are today. Do we just accept few small things that would help us in short term but affect us all in medium to long run? I do not think so. Senate bill already has provisions that we seek and there is broad support for that. So, why should we let few small groups take that away from us?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:38 PM
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This is a dangerous statement....are we saying that H1B program is a means to have cheap foreign labor available to US companies (at the expense of US citizens?).
Competition is fine if everyone is playing by the same standards/rules. And there is nothing dangerous to say the truth. Yes H1B program means cheap labor for companies if there is a long delay in green cards. Cheap labor in US will come at the expense of US workers. Reducing backlogs will not just work in favor of immigrant workers, it will work in favor of US workers too. Why is this truth so dangerous? I thought the truth was supposed to set us free.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
Thanks for the explanation! Are there any more reasons?
Is this not enough?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 03:06 AM
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Default Do no harm

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Originally Posted by psagarn View Post
I am sorry but you are right...I am not convinced. If, as an immigrant community, we are supposed to think about us (immigrant community) then why should I not just think about myself?

My stand is that in order to have some weight to what we say, we need to add numbers to our group. Increasing the H1B visa numbers is not necessarily a bad thing as it increases the output of US economy...this is the first part of the journey. Second part is converting the H1B holders into citizens and that has even better pay offs for US economy as people then start spending money on housing/cars instead of sending it back to India. The first part is taken care of by HR2131, we need numbers to convince law makers to act on second part. Part of the problem is that we are not a big enough group to make an impact (read a considerable vote bank). Once there are enough people in this mess and law makers see that with just one stroke of a brush they can win considerable votes, they will act on the second part. Not being able to do both parts in one go does not mean that we should not even start the journey. We can start it, achieve the first milestone..give it a break and then continue onto the second leg. Like I said this is my stand as of right now unless some one comes forward with any more reasons.

We cannot allow CIR to do harm to future immigrants, it's irresponsible to allow Congress to create such an imbalance in the GC backlogs. Think of the frustration of being in the endless queues, waiting for Visa Bulletins, having our souses unable to work... would you really wish this on 10X more folks? The purpose of CIR or IV for that matter is not to get more Indians into this country, it's to help employment-based immigrants have a future in this country, that means GC's.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:52 AM
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So are you guys done fighting and BS so that you can take a look at action items by the leaders who are working hard(free of cost) to get you a GC one way or another..

Stop these "discussions" which leads to no conclusions and do something as per action items.that was the topic/1st post of this thread.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by goosetavo View Post
We cannot allow CIR to do harm to future immigrants, it's irresponsible to allow Congress to create such an imbalance in the GC backlogs. Think of the frustration of being in the endless queues, waiting for Visa Bulletins, having our souses unable to work... would you really wish this on 10X more folks? The purpose of CIR or IV for that matter is not to get more Indians into this country, it's to help employment-based immigrants have a future in this country, that means GC's.
totally agree with you...... high skilled immigration is not, never was, @ getting more indians to US.... its @ creating a fair system.... fair system is one where everyone is treated equal.... if immigrant workers have less ability to change jobs then employers find hiring immigrant workers more attractive.... which means immigrant workers are at advantage of landing a job....... hurting US worker.....

we r seaking a system where immigrants get their green card quickly so we have the same ability to change jobs, and we r not creating disadvantage for US workers either..... the purpose of immigration system not so that immigration employers can have a business, or, small handful of companies can thrive on the labor of immigrant workforce, or, to get more people of certain ethnicity to US...... the purpose is fair and just system for everyone...... system that increases h1 visa without propotionately increasing green cards is not helping to create a fair and just system for anyone - US workers, immigrant workers and US economy. .... more h1s and less green cards will work great for small handful to employers..... but it will screw everyone else in the system.......
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:57 AM
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I have contributed $100 to IV yesterday and I am planning to attend. I will fill the form once my schedule is confirmed.

Go IV.

PS. Ignore idiots. There are such people everywhere and in every activist movement. They will never have a satisfying life whichever community they will live in their life. A human being cannot live alone and so it is wrong to only think selfishly or behave like pests living off someone else hard work in IV. Each one of us has a responsibility towards our community well being. Karma catches up to each and has a way of teaching a lesson or rewarding people handsomely.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 12:26 PM
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All of us working in IT consulting should expect our rates going per hour if House version of CIR is passed. It will not matter if we are EAD holders, greencard holders or citizens. If too many H1Bs are brought in this will happen to any market. Add the H4 work permit rule to the maths and now you will have double the amount of workers who are held hostage forever by their temporary status. They will do NOTHING to boost economy because they cannot start companies on H1B status or will be high earners. They will only boost the annual bonuses of top executives of companies. We workers need to fight for our interests.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 01:26 PM
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Default Do we have to be there all three days?

Do we have to be there all three days?

I would like to be in DC for this advocacy event but can only make it on 7th or half day on 8th. I have a prior commitment in Chicago on 9th and 10th which I am working to change but if I can't change then would have to be there so curious if I enrolled for this advocacy event, is it all or none or one can participate for day or more.

Thank you,
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