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  #436 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
By fondly recollecting your days of sleeping on floors, eating half a meal a day, living like an indentured servant - without even questioning the system - you are defending the system. Heck most people in India treat their servants better than what you are describing. What's wrong with you?
Hildingur, how do you know that it was not due to me trying to save money for something rather than being an 'indentured servant.' I am not defending it; just wanted to say that there are many people who are part of IV, and it hurts some of us being called 'commodity worker.' Unless, IV states clearly the type of immigrant it represents or wants to represent.

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Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
As many people have pointed out before, there are other forums around where people spend their careers calculating these things - you should ask them.

Stop trying to take your frustrations out on IV and people like Jambo who are actually doing meetings to push for a solution and raise awareness. If you are frustrated - go let your Congressman know about your frustrations - bashing people on forums does nothing for anyone.
For this guy, most of Indians coming to US are 'commodity workers' and you come on to side with him. Does IV accept this position that majority of indians coming to US are commodity workers? BTW, universities such as MacMaster are dime a dozen, and most of won't even consider them. I hope this is clear to some who call others 'commodity'.

I think that some people have hurt the immigrant community more than they think they are doing. But are you sure there is not an attitude to 'shut the door behind me?' Is Mr Jambo not a manifestation of that attitude?

I am not taking out frustration on anyone. Just wanted to state my opposition to Mr Jambo and his demeaning the 'commodity worker' - as per him majority of Indians who come here are just that. Do you want me to quote his exact post he posted somewhere else?
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  #437 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by testman View Post
Dear Hil -

I come from a poor background and never had enough money to arrange for a flight ticket leave alone coming to US for M.S. Didn't have the heart to ask my parents for money.

I came here with $64 in pocket as a 'commodity developer.' Slept on floor and ate half a meal a day for many months. Worked here and went on to do an M.B.A from one of the top 5 institutes in U.S. I hate it when people with all the resources start insulting people as 'commodity developer' and want to shut the door behind them.
This is ridiculous. It ain't about you testman. None of this is about you. Just because the consulting route offered you a route into US doesn't really mean that anyone who rightly points out evils of the exploitative and openly fraudulent ways of shady employers and outsourcing firms doesn't stand to advance our EB backlog cause. EB backlogs came about simply because of these shady firms exploiting poor folks (such as your former self) and the loopholes in the existing laws. If the laws were any saner (similar to what Durbin and Grassley are proposing), you might not have had access to the route that got you here, but it might have made life easier for a lot of EB backlogged folks, who just like you do, have stories of rightful struggles and humble beginnings, but didn't choose to play ball with shady companies.
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  #438 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by digitaleye View Post
This is ridiculous. It ain't about you testman. None of this is about you. Just because the consulting route offered you a route into US doesn't really mean that anyone who rightly points out evils of the exploitative and openly fraudulent ways of shady employers and outsourcing firms doesn't stand to advance our EB backlog cause. EB backlogs came about simply because of these shady firms exploiting poor folks (such as your former self) and the loopholes in the existing laws. If the laws were any saner (similar to what Durbin and Grassley are proposing), you might not have had access to the route that got you here, but it might have made life easier for a lot of EB backlogged folks, who just like you do, have stories of rightful struggles and humble beginnings, but didn't choose to play ball with shady companies.
How is that going to ease backlogs? There still be same no of H1 folks coming in and adding to queue, perhaps there will be more backlogs as lots of folks working for top Indian IT firms go back once their project or onsite duration is over.
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  #439 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:22 PM
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We represent people stuck in backlog. I think the misunderstanding you are suffering from relates to our values. That video is an excellent statement of our values. Briefly we believe in a fair immigration system that gives immigrant workers rights.

If you feel uncomfortable with our values, I suggest you join and lobby with AILA - they would love to parade the suffering of people like you and ask for more H1-B's as the solution to the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by testman View Post
For this guy, most of Indians coming to US are 'commodity workers' and you come on to side with him. Does IV accept this position that majority of indians coming to US are commodity workers? BTW, universities such as MacMaster are dime a dozen, and most of won't even consider them. I hope this is clear to some who call others 'commodity'.

I think that some people have hurt the immigrant community more than they think they are doing. But are you sure there is not an attitude to 'shut the door behind me?' Is Mr Jambo not a manifestation of that attitude?

I am not taking out frustration on anyone. Just wanted to state my opposition to Mr Jambo and his demeaning the 'commodity worker' - as per him majority of Indians who come here are just that. Do you want me to quote his exact post he posted somewhere else?
My personal view is the market is distorted by 100's of thousands of programmers with limited rights, so they might appear to be "commodity workers" -- but again, that is just my view, Jambo will need to clarify what he means.

And no one here is hurting the Immigrant community more than you. Jambo is doing meetings with this Rep's office to highlight our plight and pushing for a solution.

To me, what Jambo is doing is a part of the solution. Your argumentative nature and defense of the screwed up system is a part of the problem.
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Last edited by hil3182; 11-12-2015 at 04:29 PM.
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  #440 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaleye View Post
This is ridiculous. It ain't about you testman. None of this is about you. Just because the consulting route offered you a route into US doesn't really mean that anyone who rightly points out evils of the exploitative and openly fraudulent ways of shady employers and outsourcing firms doesn't stand to advance our EB backlog cause. EB backlogs came about simply because of these shady firms exploiting poor folks (such as your former self) and the loopholes in the existing laws. If the laws were any saner (similar to what Durbin and Grassley are proposing), you might not have had access to the route that got you here, but it might have made life easier for a lot of EB backlogged folks, who just like you do, have stories of rightful struggles and humble beginnings, but didn't choose to play ball with shady companies.
Fully agree with you! I wasn't abused.

Just didn't have money in the beginning. Due to insane reasons. Was supporting some cause back in India - donated everything before coming here. Just don't like being called 'commodity worker'
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  #441 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by testman View Post
Fully agree with you! I wasn't abused.

Just didn't have money in the beginning. Due to insane reasons. Was supporting some cause back in India - donated everything before coming here. Just don't like being called 'commodity worker'
Do you like being called a lawyer's servant / water boy ? I'd love to call you that.

Looks like this troll is from the slavetrader's camp. Be aware of these intellectually smart b@$t@rds...

-FU
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  #442 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
We represent people stuck in backlog. I think the misunderstanding you are suffering from relates to our values. That video is an excellent statement of our values. Briefly we believe in a fair immigration system that gives immigrant workers rights.

If you feel uncomfortable with our values, I suggest you join and lobby with AILA - they would love to parade the suffering of people like you and ask for more H1-B's as the solution to the problem.
I have a lot of respect for him for showing the mirror to the 'stakeholders' and standing and speaking for those whose voice has been shutdown.

But why is it with you - my way or highway?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
My personal view is the market is distorted by 100's of thousands of programmers with limited rights, so they might appear to be "commodity workers" -- but again, that is just my view, Jambo will need to clarify what he means.

And no one here is hurting the Immigrant community more than you. Jambo is doing meetings with this Rep's office to highlight our plight and pushing for a solution.
If meeting is the only criterion, let me know whom do you want me to meet. Will meet anyone if helps us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
To me, what Jambo is doing is a part of the solution. Your argumentative nature and defense of the screwed up system is a part of the problem.
What exactly is this solution? Stop everyone from coming here - that's what Mr Jumbo has in mind. Do you really want that? I hate the servitude that's built in the system. That's the part that we all agree on. Let's work on that common ground.
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  #443 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 05:06 PM
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You can quote one person and hang on to it as if your entire izzat is dependent on it. See, a group have different members with different interests. Your past has no part to play over here.

IV, the volunteer org, fights for the rights of immigrants already here and their problems. So sometimes the things we did in the past may be tougher for the new comers.

Think of it as seat belt requirement. We never had to wear seat belts when were young. Now the rules say you got to wear it. The kids can never sit in the front seat till they are over 10 or so.
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  #444 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by testman View Post
I have a lot of respect for him for showing the mirror to the 'stakeholders' and standing and speaking for those whose voice has been shutdown.

But why is it with you - my way or highway?
Because we have a large lobbying organization to run and it is very important to have a consistent message.

If you somehow believe there is any justification, for giving H1/L1 workers less rights than Americans or GC holders - please view this as an invitation to leave.

The only reason we have any credibility in DC is because we are perceived as the only honest players in this system. The only reason I140-EAD is happening is because it came from us and people have come to trust IV's positions in such things.

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Originally Posted by testman View Post
If meeting is the only criterion, let me know whom do you want me to meet. Will meet anyone if helps us.
Meeting isn't the only criterion. You need to have the right message. If your message is "Give me a Green Card because I have been here so long and I deserve one" - nothing will happen, infact you will be harming the cause. If on the other hand your message is "Give me a Green Card because a Green Card means I have rights, which will in-turn level the playing field and American's won't loose their jobs to H1-B's stuck in backlog anymore", you will find a more favorable response.

When you actually start doing meetings you will see that it is impossible to talk about the Green Card backlog without talking about H1-B abuse. It is very important for the whole organization to be on the same page regarding our message and values.

If you can't digest our message or values, please leave. If you want to do meetings, join a state chapter and PM one of the Admins there.

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Originally Posted by testman View Post
What exactly is this solution? Stop everyone from coming here - that's what Mr Jumbo has in mind. Do you really want that? I hate the servitude that's built in the system. That's the part that we all agree on. Let's work on that common ground.
The solution is for lobbying to give everyone rights. That will fix the system. That is IV's position. If you want to be associated with IV, that needs to be your position too.
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  #445 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 05:39 PM
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Fully agree with you! I wasn't abused.

Just didn't have money in the beginning. Due to insane reasons. Was supporting some cause back in India - donated everything before coming here. Just don't like being called 'commodity worker'
Understood, labels are hurtful and a form of stereotyping. But, man, there is no moral defense of the H1B system, we all personally know how consulting and Indian IT firms have brought this H1B/EB system to its knees. IMO, if we are for EB reform, then we have to stand for H1B reform too. IMO, if H1B abuse stops, EB backlogs will become manageable and EB system will become fairer too when H1B reform is coupled with HR 213 and its likes (not just for Indians, but also for people from other countries, who will face a growing wait time if H1B abuse goes unchecked).
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  #446 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
We represent people stuck in backlog. I think the misunderstanding you are suffering from relates to our values. That video is an excellent statement of our values. Briefly we believe in a fair immigration system that gives immigrant workers rights.

If you feel uncomfortable with our values, I suggest you join and lobby with AILA - they would love to parade the suffering of people like you and ask for more H1-B's as the solution to the problem.



My personal view is the market is distorted by 100's of thousands of programmers with limited rights, so they might appear to be "commodity workers" -- but again, that is just my view, Jambo will need to clarify what he means.

And no one here is hurting the Immigrant community more than you. Jambo is doing meetings with this Rep's office to highlight our plight and pushing for a solution.

To me, what Jambo is doing is a part of the solution. Your argumentative nature and defense of the screwed up system is a part of the problem.
Your interests and positions don't collude. Not the part where you represent the people stuck in backlog.

You have an idealized opinion of the workers you think you represent. Those who are 'haves' not the ones like me 'have nots'. We came here not due to money our parents had but due to our capabilities and did well here. We represent a major portion of your support base.

Just keep that in mind while you are working hard to change the H1B system. In case we are not the ones you represent, don't speak next time that you represent the 1 million people stuck in EB category. Just specify the exact candidate you represent.

I hope your interests and positions are the same.

I won't waste more of your time here. Please boock this ID and the ip addresses I login from.

Thanks!
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  #447 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testman View Post
Your interests and positions don't collude. Not the part where you represent the people stuck in backlog.

You have an idealized opinion of the workers you think you represent. Those who are 'haves' not the ones like me 'have nots'. We came here not due to money our parents had but due to our capabilities and did well here. We represent a major portion of your support base.

Just keep that in mind while you are working hard to change the H1B system. In case we are not the ones you represent, don't speak next time that you represent the 1 million people stuck in EB category. Just specify the exact candidate you represent.

I hope your interests and positions are the same.

I won't waste more of your time here. Please boock this ID and the ip addresses I login from.

Thanks!
Greg, Is that you? Nice work man. For a minute you made it look like you are for real with your story about sleeping on the floor, because that is my story too.

But now you are saying don't speak up against exploitation or against abuses to fix the system. Why? Because your practice will be affected by changes to the system, isn't it?

You can go attack EAD for I140 fix along with your other immigration lawyer buddies. Don't expect us to stop attacking the employers and H1B system of exploitation because we have been exploited for many years.
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  #448 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testman View Post
Your interests and positions don't collude. Not the part where you represent the people stuck in backlog.

You have an idealized opinion of the workers you think you represent. Those who are 'haves' not the ones like me 'have nots'. We came here not due to money our parents had but due to our capabilities and did well here. We represent a major portion of your support base.

Just keep that in mind while you are working hard to change the H1B system. In case we are not the ones you represent, don't speak next time that you represent the 1 million people stuck in EB category. Just specify the exact candidate you represent.

I hope your interests and positions are the same.

I won't waste more of your time here. Please boock this ID and the ip addresses I login from.

Thanks!
So you see nothing wrong in current L1/H1 system because it benefited you in the past and hence you want status quo - Fair enough . By this logic of yours you seem to be confused with your stand .

What exactly you are fighting for now if status quo works for you ?

Going by your logic - When you ask for backlog removal and removal of country cap , aren't you making things difficult for ROWs and hence making lives difficult of these other immigrants ? Why are you fighting for change in this area dude if on the other side you are fine with status quo ?
Now dont say you are fighting for the backlogs as this shows you to selectively choose to fight for fairness just when it works for you .

IV's stand is consistent , fair , clear and unambiguous unlike those wolves in sheep clothing . I just dont get what you did not understand from what Hil was trying to say .
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  #449 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by abcdgc View Post
Greg, Is that you? Nice work man. For a minute you made it look like you are for real with your story about sleeping on the floor, because that is my story too.

But now you are saying don't speak up against exploitation or against abuses to fix the system. Why? Because your practice will be affected by changes to the system, isn't it?

You can go attack EAD for I140 fix along with your other immigration lawyer buddies. Don't expect us to stop attacking the employers and H1B system of exploitation because we have been exploited for many years.
Lol . Could be him , after all he is master of internet and social media
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  #450 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by testman View Post
Your interests and positions don't collude.
And what you have been making up does not add up too. You are such a troll. Go back to your anonymous world where you thrive by typing, tweeting and internet marketing - www. Next time, prepare your script well before calling out others.

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Originally Posted by testman View Post
I come from a poor background and never had enough money to arrange for a flight ticket leave alone coming to US for M.S. Didn't have the heart to ask my parents for money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by testman View Post
Just didn't have money in the beginning. Due to insane reasons. Was supporting some cause back in India - donated everything before coming here. Just don't like being called 'commodity worker'
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