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  #361 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
i know that nothing will happen. but you got nothing to lose. they might look just look at the number.
We don't even know what will happen if it meets 100k
If nothing happens at least we can blame them on that. If something happens Good for us.
But i say we should at least give it a try.Wouldn't it help even a little bit when someone meets a representative and show a government site which says 100k people supported it?
Yes, there is a downside which has been explained several times. You personally might be motivated enough to sign petitions all day long and make phone calls all day long and send emails all day long.

However, a lot of people will sign a few petitions and stop - thinking they have done their part (especially those not directly affected). Do you want that to happen?

Also spulugur's comment is excellent!
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  #362 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
IF you get to 100K signatures, you will get a bland statement from the WH about the same bullshit about them unable to do simple arithmetic.

What you need to fix this is serious pressure, not some silly petition. We know exactly who in the WH will get that petition IF you get to 100K signatures and can even tell you which garbage can it will end up in.

435 members of congress calling the WH is one way to do it and media is another way. Petitions are a waste of time and will only suck away energy from things that will work. People are getting tired of explaining the same thing over and over.
@hil3182,

Can someone from the admin group send us a common subject line & a message body to send our emails to our respective HORs and State senators?
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  #363 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
IF you get to 100K signatures, you will get a bland statement from the WH about the same bullshit about them unable to do simple arithmetic.

What you need to fix this is serious pressure, not some silly petition. We know exactly who in the WH will get that petition IF you get to 100K signatures and can even tell you which garbage can it will end up in.

435 members of congress calling the WH is one way to do it and media is another way. Petitions are a waste of time and will only suck away energy from things that will work. People are getting tired of explaining the same thing over and over.
I completely agree. But some people just dont want to do anything. what can we do about them?
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  #364 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
Hi, Admin's and Senior members before reacting to my message , i request you to take one min and think.
So i know what your feeling about petitions and i agree with you. But right now , there were 3 petitions all for GC and EAD which did not meet the expected Numbers.
I just noticed that all the elections candidates speak something about all the topics that have been so popular. they feel the public demands at least an explanation. I see so many of the immigration sites are asking others to sign these petitions and its only here that you guys say dont.
But my question is have we ever met 100K signatures before to say , it does not work?
Does the Visa bulletin reversal have anything to do with passing in congress?
Or can White house and DHS can do anything about it without going through congress??
If you say yes, i urge you guys to make this one meet the Signature Limit.
It comes as very weak case and not popular. Representatives and campaigns matter. But pulich demand tops everything. Everyone in politics works to get recognition. And if they work on something there is no recognition. it does not catch their interest.
Please think about it.
Has anyone seen the WH do anything about this petition?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...s-and-students

This is probably in some bureaucratic black hole by now and 100k is not really a magic number for anything to get noticed in a country of 330 million.
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  #365 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
Hi, Admin's and Senior members before reacting to my message , i request you to take one min and think.
So i know what your feeling about petitions and i agree with you. But right now , there were 3 petitions all for GC and EAD which did not meet the expected Numbers.
I just noticed that all the elections candidates speak something about all the topics that have been so popular. they feel the public demands at least an explanation. I see so many of the immigration sites are asking others to sign these petitions and its only here that you guys say dont.
But my question is have we ever met 100K signatures before to say , it does not work?
Does the Visa bulletin reversal have anything to do with passing in congress?
Or can White house and DHS can do anything about it without going through congress??
If you say yes, i urge you guys to make this one meet the Signature Limit.
It comes as very weak case and not popular. Representatives and campaigns matter. But pulich demand tops everything. Everyone in politics works to get recognition. And if they work on something there is no recognition. it does not catch their interest.
Please think about it.
You can outsource signing of petition to India. Imagine if everyone in India signs it it will be the highest signed petition in the world. Do you still think Presidential candidates will care? They are not getting any votes or financial contributions from H1B immigrants.

IV Admin sometime back posted that when IV can directly pick up the phone and talk to senior people and go and meet, why do you want a petition that will be reviewed by an intern and will give you a standard position reply on the issue. I have been there and done that so I know. Why do you want to reinvent the wheel everytime.
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  #366 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
I completely agree. But some people just dont want to do anything. what can we do about them?
Educate them about how they can do better! My office folks sent me e-mails about these petitions and I responded with asking them let me know when you receive the BS response. I am amazed that most people just think the EB fixes are happening because their prayers and petitions were answered.
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  #367 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
i know that nothing will happen. but you got nothing to lose.
You have a lot to lose by signing a petition. You distract everyone else doing real advocacy and waste efforts. Those small efforts can be used for picking up a phone and calling your lawmaker at the very least.

I understand why everyone is merry go round about petitions today. A lawyer has asked people to sign. He knows many of us are ignorant and naive.

Cool. How about telling that lawyer to first get signatures of all 10 thousand AILA lawyers on the online petition. Lets see how many lawyers are naive and if they seriously believe in petitions before we dive in.

Can someone send this challenge to them?
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  #368 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:05 PM
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How many people are sending flowers today.
i have done that . would be great if they receive tons of flowers today
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  #369 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
I completely agree. But some people just dont want to do anything. what can we do about them?
Definitely not sign a petition. If we can squeeze an email of a phone call out of these people - it is infinitely more valuable than a petition we KNOW is useless.

And it isn't as-if there is a universe out there where a petition could be useful here.

All petitions do is draw attention to problems - and let me assure you, they already know of the problem - it is drawing attention.

We KNOW for a FACT that petitions are useless.

Everything we are doing is highly targeted. We know exactly what is going on behind the scenes in both the WH and the DHS.

For IV to support a petition is like for you to send the person in your office a letter in the mail instead of sending an email, picking up the phone or just walking over. It is ridiculous and and will only drain energy.


If you are looking to do something, call your Congressmen and Senators. If you have already called, call back and ask if they have heard back from the WH. If you have already done that call Congressmen & Senators in previous states/districts you have lived in. And these are your talking points:

Quote:
1. Always start by throwing the Immigration Voice name around with confidence! Start any conversation or email by saying you are a grassroots IV volunteer. It will make you sound more powerful than you really are - and they will take you more seriously.
2. DoS & DHS acknowledged making a mistake
3. You and your employer are out 5-10K per family.
4. They had 9 months to get this right - since the EO was announced
5. This is not your fault, there is precedent for them to revert to a prior VB when they make a mistake (2007).
6. Tell them not to call DHS or DoS, because they will just come up with more bogus explanations. Tell them to call the WH Legislative Office to fix this and the only appropriate fix is to roll back the earlier VB. For Democratic offices, you can tell them to pass on to the WH the message that DHS and DoS are screwing up implementation of the Presidents Executive Order on immigration - his legacy.
Whatever you do, don't waste time on petitions.
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  #370 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:05 PM
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Default Twitter campaign to bring attention to backlog problem.

We are launching a twitter attack on all major media houses. Need everyone to publish their stories on www.medium.com and link it to their twitter account.

Don't forget to tag @immivoice and @JuliaPrestonNYT. A sample story here - https://twitter.com/FrankUndrwod/sta...75139870875648
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  #371 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:07 PM
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WashingtonDCFlowers.net - Offering flowers and flower delivery for all occasions.


If someone is interested. Total cost would be 45 bucks.They are local.
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  #372 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
Can everyone go to this link and click on "This story Belongs to CNN"
Lawsuit filed against USCIS and DOS - CNN iReport
If there is a lot of interest they will pick it up. What does Admin's think.
That's fine.
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  #373 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
I completely agree. But some people just dont want to do anything. what can we do about them?
They make a video of themselves dancing naked and post on YouTube under the title please sign this online petition. I am willing to get naked for you.

You will have million views, will make money from views and have millions of signatures. And who knows you will get some media coverage for this innovative idea.

These people now have something useful to do and also get to help us.
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  #374 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by namitxyz View Post
We are launching a twitter attack on all major media houses. Need everyone to publish their stories on www.medium.com and link it to their twitter account.

Don't forget to tag @immivoice and @JuliaPrestonNYT. A sample story here - https://twitter.com/FrankUndrwod/sta...75139870875648
This is a great idea. Some IV members are giving this a push. Julia Preston who did the article yesterday is a heavy hitter on the immigration beat.

Tell her your story. That is a hell of a lot better than signing a useless petition.
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  #375 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2015, 12:15 PM
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Other immigration sites are generally of 2 types:

Type 1 - These sites belong to immigration lawyers who DO NOT want skilled immigrants to do real advocacy. They go and tell Members of Congress that they represent immigrants. But in reality lawyers just speak for themselves to twist and turn the laws so immigration lawyers can make more money even when immigrants rot on backlogs for decades.

This category want immigrants to believe that clicking some online petition will solve their problems and there is no need for immigrants to be involved in real advocacy in Washington or in the local districts by meeting with your member of Congress.

Type 2 - These sites belong to traveler insurance sellers or some other business, and they need repeat site visitors to sell traveler insurance or whatever the hell they sell to target immigrant community.

This category wants immigrants to keep visiting their website so they can advertise more and sell more insurance. That is why want people to click online petitions, which are pathetic and useless.


Please point us to any immigration policy change brought up by online petitions. If you can ever find such an petition, then please let us know. If a chance happens, it is not because of online petitions, but in spite of it. The ONLY way to influence policy change is by meeting or directly communicating by policy makers at DHS/USCIS/State Dept/WH or by meeting/directly communicating with lawmakers' offices. IV members who come to advocacy events understand this completely because they get to see how the real system works first hand.

By clicking on useless online petitions, you are guilty of weakening the cause/issue you want to support, because affected people who should have been speaking up and directly reaching out to the specific policy makers, these affected people will no longer reach out to the policy makers because they will somehow believe that they have done their share by clicking some pathetic toothless online petition.

IV only uses online tools to create more awareness so more people can get directly involved. Over the years, thousands of people have shown up at different IV lobby events in DC. But after they come to DC event, they get the taste of how the real system works, and they no longer waste their time on these useless online petitions or predicting their dates.

We are not here to tell you what you should or should not do. You are free to visit those lawyer websites and you can keep clicking on these toothless online petitions. But in good conscience we just can't let ourselves be that instrument for this self inflicting and suicidal behavior.

If you cannot come to DC for meetings, then we understand. Although you can come to DC if you care for the issue enough, but that is ok. You can still visit local office of the lawmaker or email the DHS or USCIS staff directly. You can write the policy makers letters or make phone calls for direct one-on-one communication. But instead you keep asking the least involving and totally useless method of online petitions. And what will you get from this online petition? Even if you get 100,000 people to sign these useless online petitions, the maximum you will get in return is 3-4 paragraph response explaining why Administration cannot do what you are asking. What is the point of that response? IV can probably write the same email directly to WH staff and in a day get the same response which will be sincere and meaningful. Then what is the point of wasting the time of 100,000 people signing these online petitions? Can you explain that?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tpathrose View Post
Hi, Admin's and Senior members before reacting to my message , i request you to take one min and think.
So i know what your feeling about petitions and i agree with you. But right now , there were 3 petitions all for GC and EAD which did not meet the expected Numbers.
I just noticed that all the elections candidates speak something about all the topics that have been so popular. they feel the public demands at least an explanation. I see so many of the immigration sites are asking others to sign these petitions and its only here that you guys say dont.
But my question is have we ever met 100K signatures before to say , it does not work?
Does the Visa bulletin reversal have anything to do with passing in congress?
Or can White house and DHS can do anything about it without going through congress??
If you say yes, i urge you guys to make this one meet the Signature Limit.
It comes as very weak case and not popular. Representatives and campaigns matter. But pulich demand tops everything. Everyone in politics works to get recognition. And if they work on something there is no recognition. it does not catch their interest.
Please think about it.

Last edited by Administrator2; 10-02-2015 at 12:54 PM.
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