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  #1141 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
Regarding

57 Congressmen and their staffers[/url] (so far) manage to get it - don't you get it?
Its 58 now. IV Volunteers had a meeting with Congressman Murphy Tim Rice PA-18 yesterday and he agreed to co-sponsor. It should reflect on Congress.gov in a day or so.

This was actually a great effort. Folks met his office in DC, then collected signatures from about 200 people in the area, and then met him locally which is when he decided to co-sponsors.

Selfless folks working hard to do things that matter, while keyboard and forum tigers shield behind the computer screen and criticize and question everything, worse, do not engage in advocacy events and then already declare failure, when in fact things should get momentum.
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  #1142 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by max4438 View Post
Regarding

(1)Luis Gutierrez is on the bill - anyone who makes your argument about HR.213 competing with the undocumented cause - is trying to be more loyal to the King than the King himself (like Gotchers people are to Gotcher ). -

Ok what about other democrats and at the time of signing the bill, it will be compared with work done for illegals. Whether we like it or not, the comparison will be drawn because the democrats major vote base is not us. Which is fine, but what are we doing about it when this comparison is drawn?
They way it works is these guys have a leader for every cause and everyone plays follow the leader.

Paul Ryan is the Republican leader on Budgetary issues - any Budget bill that has Paul Ryan on it, will be looked upon favorably by all other Republicans.

Zoe Lofgren has similar stature on high-tech issues and Luis Gutierrez for undocumented. If you do any meetings with a D office and they start talking about how they favor a "Comprehensive approach", all you have to say is "Gutierrez is on the bill" - that will shut them up. No one (except the lawyers favored "moderators") wants to be more loyal to the King than the King - you are just demeaning yourself at that point.

That said, I don't see you doing any meetings, I think you are just here to argue. If you were genuinely interested in helping, you would be doing meetings not wasting everyone's time playing "devils advocate" here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by max4438 View Post
(2) Do you think we are stupid? We have a Senate strategy. Do you really think we would put so much energy into something that had no hope of happening? -

What exactly is the senate strategy? How will you convince the senators that want an "all or nothing" approach to immigration?
Again, do you think we are stupid? Why would we give away our Senate strategy so a bunch of immigration lawyers and lobbyists can interfere in our bill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by max4438 View Post
(3) HR.213 does not increase or decrease Green Cards or H1-B, instead it resolves ridiculously long Green Card backlogs that depresses wages for Americans - an argument we make all the time on the Hill. 57 Congressmen and their staffers (so far) manage to get it - don't you get it? -

Yes but it does allows more people to start competing directly for high paying jobs as soon as you and me are allowed to change jobs freely after getting GC. This thought is in the back of the mind of ordinary citizens.
People are smart enough to understand that giving everyone job mobility results in higher wages - not lower. Employers have come to prefer people with less rights because we work for less and take more abuse - as was recently seen with Southern California Edison and Disney.

Again, we make this argument to people on the Hill all the time. I make this argument to people that I know personally - Americans some of them. Everyone gets it. 57 Congressmen feel comfortable enough to put their name on the bill. 389 congressmen and 99 Senators felt comfortable enough to support in - on the record - in 2012.

Honestly I don't understand why it is so hard for you to get?

If you meet people who are making the mistake of thinking that having a cheap labor force depressing white-collar wages is somehow good for either them or the economy - and you don't correct that mis-conception, it is entirely your fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by max4438 View Post
Again, we both are on the same team. Just playing devils advocate.
Honestly we don't need anyone playing "devils advocate" here - especially someone with no lobbying experience. We have to deal with plenty of actual Devil's in getting this done - having his "advocate" yapping at our ankles is just a silly distraction. If you want to be taken seriously, attend a couple of advocacy day events - demonstrate that you actually know how things work instead of this ridiculous Monday Morning Quarterbacking.
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Last edited by hil3182; 10-16-2015 at 03:42 PM.
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  #1143 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 03:39 PM
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I supported attorney who filed lawsuit, in fact still supporting him as that is the only thing keeping the VB fiaso alive. I supported HR3012 and met my Senator to push for it back in 2010. I support HR213 also as I will be also one of the beneficiaries if the bill passes.

Having said that I have been following everything happening around immigration for last 6-7 years and I followed HR 3012 & CIR from start to finish.

So nothing in the political scenario has changed in favor of immigration recently. In fact log of things have changed against immigration bills in general. That is the reason I doubt the chances of Hr 213. Not give me facts rather than your stupid argument like I am from lawyer camp.
This is my personal opinion not IVs. Good for you to support the litigation, but if you read the law, the DHS has the authority to change the VB. Again, personally I can't see how a judge can adjudicate that they broke a law. Its plan and simple. So personally I don't think the lawsuit is going anywhere. I would be the happiest person on planet earth if that happens, and will be the first one to declare that I was wrong. Lawyers saw the opportunity to create a sensation, and everyone and their brother gave them everything short of their own clothes that they were wearing. Again, you just have to attend one advocacy event. Be in meetings with staffers who work with the lobbyists on a day to day basis to see all this. But most of us won't. Its just how we are built.. " Chalta hai" "Kuch nahi hoga" attitude. And then people get offended when we be upfront. Offended? What are we kids?

Secondly, nothing in the political scenario has happened positively for gun control either. Do you think the anti gun activists are going to stop? Should your actions be determined based on political scenario? What if Mahatma Gandhi thought this way? What if the LGBT community thought this way?
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  #1144 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vikidisi View Post
This is my personal opinion not IVs. Good for you to support the litigation, but if you read the law, the DHS has the authority to change the VB. Again, personally I can't see how a judge can adjudicate that they broke a law. Its plan and simple. So personally I don't think the lawsuit is going anywhere. I would be the happiest person on planet earth if that happens, and will be the first one to declare that I was wrong. Lawyers saw the opportunity to create a sensation, and everyone and their brother gave them everything short of their own clothes that they were wearing. Again, you just have to attend one advocacy event. Be in meetings with staffers who work with the lobbyists on a day to day basis to see all this. But most of us won't. Its just how we are built.. " Chalta hai" "Kuch nahi hoga" attitude. And then people get offended when we be upfront. Offended? What are we kids?

Secondly, nothing in the political scenario has happened positively for gun control either. Do you think the anti gun activists are going to stop? Should your actions be determined based on political scenario? What if Mahatma Gandhi thought this way? What if the LGBT community thought this way?
Nicely said
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  #1145 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tracka View Post
I supported attorney who filed lawsuit, in fact still supporting him as that is the only thing keeping the VB fiaso alive..........
That is the reason I doubt the chances of Hr 213. Not give me facts rather than your stupid argument like I am from lawyer camp.
Lawyer who filed the LawSuit has now SLOWED DOWN on Twitter once he realized its not going anywhere ...He may have had 50%-0% good intentions in suing and definitely 50%-100% in marketing himself.

I know its hard but..... I feel it is difficult to get VB reversed ....Lawsuit Lawyer will not agree due to the hype and press he got initially.

But he DIVERTED precious energy of the EB community into the lawsuit which instead would have helped create even more political outrage.
He used EB community and LawSuit that for his marketing and now he is saying Advocacy is also needed apart from lawsuit...... But if you read between the lines he has accepted the fact - lawsuit is going no where (but doesn't want to tell).

I know you have no hopes on HR213 ....but now with the lawsuit going nowhere what are your hopes on? Still on the same LawSuit Lawyer ? Did you ask the Lawsuit Lawyer /AILA why not supporting HR 213? Because that works against their business model.

You may say no trust.... but you have to admit growing bi-partisan support for HR213 (58 co-sponsors).
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  #1146 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 05:01 PM
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Lawyers are the biggest scumbags on planet Earth. They are worse than the damage which is caused by climate change.

Take for example angelo paparelli. The douchebag commented in an open call with USCIS that EAD/AP is bad for the employers and people should wait for an year after their 140 approval to even apply for freedom.

Then you take the example of siskind and miley cyrus. Both of them were tweeter kings when the VB fiasco happened. Took the money from unsuspecting immigrants, ran away with it and are now posting bullshit theories of how the govt. calculates visas. These sleazeballs should be exposed in the middle of the streets.
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  #1147 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 05:04 PM
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As I have said before, the number crunching and proving their calculations wrong is not going to go any where. What else the lawyers got?

Besides, I am not sure if the courts would allow this so-called discovery because VB reversal has not voilated any laws (which to my knowledge do not exist by design). The govenrment would point to the inventory reports . Then what? I think the government has a stronger case on merits and they likely have no intention of backing down.

The lawsuit followers should ask one question:

1) Even if we prove their calculation is wrong, so what?

Can the courts direct them to correct the VB just coz their number were wrong? Keep in mind, there is nothing to state they should have an "inventory of X thousand" cases for AOS cases. There is some mention of a "Waiting list" for visa offices and nothing for AOS applicants. Strange enough.

The DOS data shows that there are no visas wasted in the past few years. And that was before this VB fix.
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  #1148 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by essell View Post
Did you ask the Lawsuit Lawyer /AILA why not supporting HR 213? Because that works against their business model.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by essell View Post

I know you have no hopes on HR213 ....but now with the lawsuit going nowhere what are your hopes on? Still on the same LawSuit Lawyer ? Did you ask the Lawsuit Lawyer /AILA why not supporting HR 213? Because that works against their business model.

.
This is a fantastic statement. Everyone on this forum, and folks that are snooping around here from other forums, wondering what IV is working on why they are silent (which everyone will know soon), anyone, please show me one statement from AILA, Siskind, Mehta, Gotcher, AILA, that throws their support for HR 213. Just one!

In spite of knowing that it is the single piece of legislation that will impact millions, and fix the root cause of this issue, they want to stay mum about it. Go on find it. Found one? No? Wonder why? Who has thoughts or ideas on why they are not getting behind the legislation?

Heck, check AILA's official submission to the request for changes to the system. Find anything about I-140 EAD, AOS etc? You won't. You have no idea how royally these attorneys are screwing us, because we enjoy being screwed by these attorneys and don't have the balls to see through the BS. And then just because we lay out things the way they should be - some people (wusses) get offended, call us brash. No, we are just upfront, and say things like they are. We have truth on our side. Again, it only takes attendance at one of IVs advocacy events to see all this.

Also check IVs submission. Read it? So, who's got your back?
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  #1149 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by vikidisi View Post
This is a fantastic statement. Everyone on this forum, and folks that are snooping around here from other forums, wondering what IV is working on why they are silent (which everyone will know soon)
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  #1150 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 07:06 PM
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crackjack9 is on a distinguished road
Default For those who want to help and looking for pointers

From: IV volunteer who joined 6 months back and has been to both advocacy events since joining.
Posting frequency: Twice a month ( and not ashamed of it)

After spending whatever little time on forums, I can say -There are three kinds of people on the forums :
Category 1 - Those who are here with some vested interest to spread negativity. By now we all know them by their id and track record of posts. It’s a waste of time responding to their threads.
Category 2 - Those who have not been to IV advocacy but want to try it out. Genuine backlogged folks who want to help and are seeking guidance, little nudge to take the plunge.
Category 3 - IV volunteers - everyone knows how they roll

This post is especially for Category 2 folks since those are the ones that are actually willing to contribute productively to the cause and may find it useful. So soak in some positivity yall!

"How I got my first co-sponsorship on HR213" or "Things to do for your Representative’s co-sponsorship" if you are looking for some pointers to start contributing.
Stage 1 - Prep Stage- It took me a two weeks with phone calls / emails every other day to get a phone meeting with LA to explain our issue, why this is not just my personal issue and why I am calling on behalf of all backlogged folks in district as an ‘IV volunteer’ etc etc.
Some of you may get lucky and get to explain everything in first phone meeting with Legislative Assistant. Maybe your office is already aware of it. So use this initial phase to do the ground work in terms of reading Congressman's website, his record on immigration bills - high skilled and undocumented, sign up for his newsletter on website or like his FB page to know when he would be in district for local engagements, look up the staff listing to find out the ‘Chain of Command’ i.e names of Chief of Staff, Legislative Director, Legislative Assistant and so on.
Join the IV State chapter to find if there are IV volunteers in your or neighboring districts and work with them and follow their action items. I pinned in my office cube - my state map that shows all congressional districts since I found it useful when following up with their offices as part of state wide action items following advocacy events. If your district does not have a resident IV volunteer (who has been to DC advocacy), you still may be able to find very active IV volunteers in other state districts and they will be happy to help you and may have met your office in DC in past. So do your homework well in this prep stage. Find everything there is to find about 1) Your Rep's office and immigration track record 2) Office's IV meetings history from your nearest IV volunteer 3) What to say to office if you get the meeting.


Stage 2 - Build Momentum – Keep on following up every week (one phone call and one email every week). In third week, I got a response that my office is interested to know how many folks are impacted in the district.

By this time you would know where the office stands on this issue and immigration in general and if they need more push. And by this time, you would be on first name basis with LA and other assistants in office, if you have visited local office and have been calling once a week to follow up . They will likely test your tenacity (in a good way). Depending on the response, You will then regroup with other folks/ IV volunteers in the district and show why this is a fairness issue and talk about the plight / quality of life. I offered to do a constituent conference call with LA, who dialed-in from DC, and 7 amazing folks dialed-in from the district to share their story / hardships as backlogged constituents. And I have to admit even I was moved when I heard some well articulated passionate stories. Hey, I had been reiterating ‘Aging Out’ issue on every phone call for weeks but I was blown away by the impact it had when a mom (my good neighbor) spoke on the conf call with Legislative Assistant that her teenage son is in top Enrichment program in this top school district of the state and she is not even sure if he would be able to stay in this country in a few years time and How does a mom explain her son that 'H4 cannot have SSN and H4 cannot earn' when the boy asks her - "Mom, Why can’t I work part time as a swimming coach or life guard at school pool even though school is ready and paying good money for it and when his other classmates can do it ? Mom, Are we illegal in this country?”
Found another PhD constituent while searching for volunteers, now a good friend, who had Patents in his name and his work was used in NASA exploration attempt in 2009 but he cannot start his own company and give back to this country, even though he wants to. The point is you will find amazing people on the way to help you make your (read OUR) case stronger so reach out and seek help from others and gather momentum. And the way those who live the pain day in day out can articulate it, you may not be able to do that.
You may be able to make real good headway with your office by this stage and some may be ready to cosponsor. But if not, that’s fine, there is always next stage

Stage 3 - Show Up again -
Congressman's e-NewsLetter, his FB page and your local office visits will give you enough intell on when is congressman going to be in the district next for his town-hall etc. Ask for a meeting and show up again and this time with more reinforcement. With a very active new local district volunteer ( Actually Hil found him on this forum, when he posted offering help and later connected him to me. Small world ), We drove 40 miles to attend a town hall and posed a polite question reminding Congressman of our issue and I was surprised to find other legal immigrants from other countries (who were there for some other issue) also chimed in that even they had to wait for unnecessary years and they are not even from India. Wow ! I think we got plain lucky there as it increased the heat a notch. Anyways, then we asked Chief of Staff, what else can we do to put us on Congressman's radar and she genuinely replied that if there are so many of you in backlogs as you claim, how come all these people are not showing up ? (That was the moment of truth !!! Sigh , Only If half of our guys from twitter/forum/trackers were here, where it matters…..) So that is when we decided to do a hand written physical signature campaign. (REPEAT - Not an online anonymous petition, it was a handwritten physical signatures campaign with name, address, phone number, email and signature of constituents on A4 sheets urging Congressman to support HR213). By this time, we had a good local volunteer group, who was be able to help. Ganesh Puja, Kids Birthday parties, Get-togethers - everyone present at these desi social events, in last one month, at residences of our volunteers was asked to sign the signature petition and they willingly and happily obliged. We even requested a local desi grocery store to allow us to put a IV table and when shoppers were done checked out at register, we explained what we are doing for backlogs reduction and got more signatures.
Like I said - The point is you will find amazing people on the way to help you make your (OUR) case strong, if you tried.

On Oct 1, Office returned our call requesting meeting with Congressman and set the meeting in second week of October. And we showed up again and this time with 200 PHYSICAL signatures and asked Congressman if he would like to meet these backlogged folks in the district, please let us know. We also addressed some lingering questions that Congressman had on HR213. And 48 hours later, I got a call from LA that congressman was deeply moved with this issue and all the efforts that IV volunteers put into it. He said that the office will CO-SPONSOR HR213 and showing the number of impacted constituents helped to put things in perspective and in decision making.

I am not a big contributor hours wise, even though I want to - but I must have spent 30 hours a month over last 2 months on all this. And I know I would not have been able to do that if I was very active on forums or twitter. Afterall , we all have only so many hours that we can offer depending upon personal situation. So I would suggest you to pick your fight, your field and your action item wisely. HR 213 advocacy is what I have chosen to invest my time in. The question is- What are you investing your time in ?And If you ready to take the plunge to ‘IV Volunteer’ category?

And by the way, in the process, I learned a lot and made some great friends! Regardless of the outcome of all this, if nothing works, at least I cannot blame myself for not trying.


IV volunteers are forging ahead anyways with their silent action items. It is up to you to join them NOW or wait for a better time to join.

See you next month since I will now be working on neighboring districts. GO IV !!
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  #1151 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 07:54 PM
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john_jony is on a distinguished road
Default AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand thats how you do it ..

Good post crackjack outlining the process .. there are many trolls here, just like in any place in the internet .. no point in listening to those .. this concrete info and action is what is reqd to go to next step ..

meanwhile, I have some free pizza codes from dominos in case you are interested - specifically admins and the silent IV ones ... I got good hopes from the IV community in general and appreciate the hard work the IV folks do in the background silently without seeking attention or credit at every turn. So pm me .. I am in IV Chapter of California .. though it might be late for the EST folks.
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  #1152 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 08:01 PM
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As always John, your post rocks!

Ofcourse after crackjacks post.

I am category 2 and so far just contributed money. Looking forward to eating pizza with your codes on day.
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  #1153 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 08:10 PM
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john_jony is on a distinguished road
Default thanks dmx

I am easy to find in the california iv chapter .. i am in their fb with the same exact post .. Initials SS .. you can pm me there and I can send you the codes .. I won them in the mlb contest where they gave free pizza codes..
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  #1154 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hil3182 View Post
Regarding

(1) Luis Gutierrez is on the bill - anyone who makes your argument about HR.213 competing with the undocumented cause - is trying to be more loyal to the King than the King himself (like Gotchers people are to Gotcher ).
(2) Do you think we are stupid? We have a Senate strategy. Do you really think we would put so much energy into something that had no hope of happening?
(3) HR.213 does not increase or decrease Green Cards or H1-B, instead it resolves ridiculously long Green Card backlogs that depresses wages for Americans - an argument we make all the time on the Hill. 57 Congressmen and their staffers (so far) manage to get it - don't you get it?
Why HR 3012 failed in 2010 even after Grassley removed the hold. Is there any change in situation now compared to 2010 and 2011? On what basis you are hoping? Are it is just another effort? I am not saying to stop the effort. But persons need some reason to hope.
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  #1155 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2015, 09:19 PM
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pkotla is on a distinguished road
Default Tweet the attorney

How abut tweeting the attorney who filed lawsuit like we did senators !!! They way we know updates from him. We can also fund him as a support but he has to seriously take this lawsuit and keep updating us. Or else it's like a dead fish !!!!
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