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Old 03-02-2016, 02:33 PM
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I am surprised to see that, Oh uncle is not updating any breaking news as it used to be. I don't know about others. Looks like they are in workshop for something else.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:26 PM
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Default The difference between "Pro-Immigrant and "Pro-Immigration"

The difference between “Pro-Immigrant" and "Pro-Immigration"

Each one of us has heard many say that “We are a nation of immigrants”. But no matter what our personal belief is, we all acknowledge that immigration is a complicated and difficult subject.

Even though people tend to use these interchangeably, we believe that there is a very important distinction between “pro-immigration” and “pro-immigrant”.

Immigration Voice is a “pro-immigrant” organization. That means, our goal is to have immigrants treated fairly, have certain basic rights, so they are not exploited by employers, lawyers and other institutions. This also helps to prevent depressing wages or the displacement of US workers.

We will not (and never have), advocated to bring in more new immigrants from outside of United States in the current flawed system. Rather, we want that when immigrants come here (or when immigrants are brought here), that they have certain basic rights, which allows them their pursuit of happiness, without interfering with the working conditions of US workers.


Although the two words sound similar, “pro immigrant” is significantly different from “pro-immigration”.

“Pro-immigration” means when someone wants to bring in more immigrants from outside of the United States.

“Pro-immigrant” means to make sure that immigrants are treated fairly and they have certain basic rights so employers are unable to exploit them.

To put things in perspective, here is what we have observed:

Immigration Lawyers are “pro-immigration” because they want more new immigrants to be brought into United States. New immigrants coming into US mean more business for them. So their position is self-serving. And generally, Immigration Lawyers are “anti-immigrants” because they don’t want skilled immigrants to get certain basic rights, including right to their own paperwork. We think that Immigration Lawyers believe that if immigrants have more control over the process, then fewer employers will be incentivized to hire more immigrants, which will result in reduced business for immigration lawyers. For a long time, Immigration Lawyers have turned a blind eye to the exploitation and abuse of immigrants by their employers. So Immigration Lawyers are “pro-Immigration” but “anti-immigrant”. But when Immigration Lawyers go to Congress, they pretend as if they speak for and on behalf of “immigrants”, which is not the case, because they only speak for themselves. Immigration Lawyers and their organizations push for more complicated laws and regulations to make sure that everyone who has anything to do with immigration are forced to hire lawyers. That is the primary goal of the lobbying done by immigration lawyers.

Immigration Voice is a “pro-immigrant” organization. We want immigrants to have certain rights including the ability to change employer with as much ease as everyone else in the system, so that immigrant employees are not held captives to their employers. Immigration Voice is a “pro-immigration” organization, but only for a system which is “pro-immigrant” and “pro-US workers”. We have always held that new immigrants should not be brought into the current flawed system because the current system of H-1B and L-1 visa system makes immigrant employees captives of their employers, allowing exploitation of immigrants, who come here to seek freedom and start a new life. This also leads to wage depression and displacement of Americans, which is widely documented. Recent events at companies like Disney & Southern California Edison received widespread media coverage.

A system which is not “pro-immigrant” and that brings in more new immigrants will end up hurting America, Americans, and the new immigrants. That system may work great for handful of employers and immigration lawyers (as is the case right now), but in the long run, such a system is doomed to fail because it defies the laws of nature.

Companies usually create front groups in Washington to push for their skilled immigration agenda. They usually hire big name professors to do “research” and “studies” that have a predetermined outcome. These studies are all paid-for and used by front group of companies to lobby and push for their agenda. Companies want more workers and they use bumper sticker slogans like “if you oppose H-1B/L-1 visa then you are against immigrants”, “H-1B/L-1 immigrants come in and create jobs”, “if you oppose H-1B/L1 visa then you don’t want the next entrepreneur to come and create companies” etc. All of which are mostly nonsense because immigrants on H-1B/L-1 visa cannot change jobs. 99.9% of H-1B/L-1 visa holders are unable to start their own business. Almost all of the businesses started by immigrants are after they get their green cards. But companies distort facts about the businesses started by immigrants to push for their H-1B/L-1 agenda. Companies have deep pockets. Apart from extensively lobbying, they conduct several fundraisers and other initiatives to influence policy making. The whole purpose is to ensure that laws/policies cannot be changed to somehow allow skilled immigrants to slip away from their grip. They push for regulations to deny their employees copies of their own paper work file because as per the current system, immigrants require copies of their own paperwork file to change employers. Companies push for laws that will add workers in the system on the pretext that they can’t find more workers here. In essence, companies want to increase immigration, but they don’t want immigrants to get certain basic rights. This is applicable to both, large US tech companies and Indian outsourcing companies.

Inference

Immigration Voice is the largest non-profit grassroots organization of skilled immigrants on H-1B and L-1 visa in United States. We are fiercely opposed to the current H-1B visa program and L-1 visa program because it causes exploitation of skilled immigrants and displacement of US workers. Living in the trenches we know all too well how the system is abused by employers and immigration lawyers to exploit immigrants. Usually, immigration lawyers not only give immigration advice to employers, but give business advice to companies on how to use immigrant employee’s immigration status as long term employee retention insurance policy. The whole system is stacked against immigrant employee and US workers.

To make it simple to understand who stands where on the overall immigration, here is a table that breaks down different positions. This table has been created based on our experience working with each of these groups and based on our observation about where different groups stand on the overall issues of skilled immigration:



Last edited by Administrator2; 03-07-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2016, 06:39 PM
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I got a telegram update and just now got caught up with quite a bit of stuff happening.

I don't understand the latest update though. This is common knowledge right?

I am not sure if this is a FYI post or was there an action associated with this.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.kiran View Post
I got a telegram update and just now got caught up with quite a bit of stuff happening.

I don't understand the latest update though. This is common knowledge right?

I am not sure if this is a FYI post or was there an action associated with this.
You are right. There is nothing new about this. This should be common knowledge. But a lot of people don't know the reality. So we are forced to put it out there so people can see and decide for themselves.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:58 PM
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Default irony

Immigration Voice has also been benefited by greencard backlogs. Number of members have increased substantially because of the large number of workers waiting for greencards. IV might be the only organization which is working hard to make sure that green card issues of high skilled workers are resolved and it is ceased to exist.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kamakazee View Post
Immigration Voice has also been benefited by greencard backlogs. Number of members have increased substantially because of the large number of workers waiting for greencards. IV might be the only organization which is working hard to make sure that green card issues of high skilled workers are resolved and it is ceased to exist.
"benefited'? Are you out of your mind. Who did IV benefit you idiot? Just because someone is signing up to the forum doesn't mean IV is "benefiting". And for the record, we said so many times that we would rather close down after the issue is resolved.

Ya that might sound illogical to you because lawyers don't think like this. Lawyers just want more immigrants to come in so they can make more money.

Cyrus wrote in a blog post today that -
"All this demonstrates the need for more H-1B numbers rather than less as H-1B workers....". Again, he just "forgot" to mention that immigrants on H-1B visas are exploited and that they are stuck in long green card backlogs.

All that immigration lawyers want is fresh meat, so they can make more money off of them.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamakazee View Post
Immigration Voice has also been benefited by greencard backlogs. Number of members have increased substantially because of the large number of workers waiting for greencards. IV might be the only organization which is working hard to make sure that green card issues of high skilled workers are resolved and it is ceased to exist.
Wouldn't that apply to basically every single cause related charity? I mean you could replace IV with American Cancer Society and say that American Cancer society wants people to get cancer because otherwise they will not exist.

That line of reasoning is illogical.

Now, I am not a member of IV, nor am I a fan of everything they do. For example, I don't think it is very becoming of a professional organization claiming to be "highly skilled", to use words like boot licker. But that's a very small detail in the overall scheme of things.

I sincerely believe that IV is the only organization that is fighting for immigrant rights. I have gone through most submissions by the lawyers, trying to give them the benefit of doubt, but they have not addressed our core issues. AILA essentially focused on the 90 EAD part and ignored everything else.

I don't blame them. AILA is acting in their own self-interest as do most humans. I just understand that IV's self-interest and my self-interest match. The day it doesn't they'll lose their members.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-07-2016, 08:22 PM
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Default You must be kidding

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamakazee View Post
Immigration Voice has also been benefited by greencard backlogs. Number of members have increased substantially because of the large number of workers waiting for greencards. IV might be the only organization which is working hard to make sure that green card issues of high skilled workers are resolved and it is ceased to exist.
What do you even mean by this? Do you think IV volunteers go to washington dc or to meet their congressmen by wasting their own vacations are going for fun or just doing photosessions? Increase in members is a sad thing for the whole community that just shows severity of backlog. It is not a proud thing to show for. By the way arent you the same id who leaked siskinds confidential letter to iv? Because of the reputation of your id, i cant even say that last sentence is written in good faith
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:24 PM
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Also, for the record, are you Anirban or are you just using a name that is similar to the one he usually uses?
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.kiran View Post
Also, for the record, are you Anirban or are you just using a name that is similar to the one he usually uses?
He is not Anirban obviously. I have that much faith in a human not to show that much foolishness. Whoever that is must be very close to siskind as he leaked siskinds confidential letter.
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Old 03-07-2016, 08:34 PM
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Also, for the record, are you Anirban or are you just using a name that is similar to the one he usually uses?
who the hell cares for that asshole.... he is always brown nosing Gotcher and Siskind
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Administrator2 View Post
The difference between “Pro-Immigrant" and "Pro-Immigration"
Why are the news outlets not aware of this when they write H1-B creating jobs. Is it because the media is paid or ignorant?
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kamakazee View Post
Immigration Voice has also been benefited by greencard backlogs. Number of members have increased substantially because of the large number of workers waiting for greencards. IV might be the only organization which is working hard to make sure that green card issues of high skilled workers are resolved and it is ceased to exist.
I remember this asshole, who post something from one of the fu***n immigration lawyers post/quote in this forum, and this is the guy he/she is very active with some kitt.. who work against IV. I personally don't believe IV got anything benefited from this. They are working for EB Indian/backlogged people, there will be expense for anything..
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:49 PM
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I agree with above post from d.. as the words IV use is not appropriate for 'High skilled' immigrants, but I believe that these are coming from their frustration. I am not an active member or participated in any of the IV's events, so I don't know what is happening inside and never asked for.. but I believe that IV is the only one org in US fighting for EB immigrants. Thank you for all your efforts IV.
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Old 03-07-2016, 10:49 PM
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Why are the news outlets not aware of this when they write H1-B creating jobs. Is it because the media is paid or ignorant?
Paid
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