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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2016, 07:47 PM
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Default IV Call on Sunday July 17th at 4PM EST.

Details to follow.
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Old 07-14-2016, 12:08 AM
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Thanks much for the update. I look forward to the details and the call.
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Old 07-14-2016, 01:01 PM
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Call details are up.

Quote:
#CatchUp

Dear Friend,

The leadership team of Immigration Voice will share key updates and cover appropriate action items that need to be completed over the next few weeks.

If you or someone you know is impacted by the decades long green card backlogs, we encourage you to join this call.

Date: Sunday, July 17, 2016
Time: 4:00 PM EASTERN TIME

Dial-in: 712.770.4010
Code: 400533
-- OR --
Dial in: 641.715.3580
Code: 826780

RSVP at facebook.com/events/1114489048611413/


Thank you,
IV Core Team
Immigration Voice
If you aren't on the mailing list, please signup here.
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Old 07-17-2016, 08:05 PM
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Hi,
This is a request to IV members- I could not participate in today's call due to some unavoidable reasons. Can a member please let me know what were the main discussion points? Thanks!
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Limmig View Post
Hi,
This is a request to IV members- I could not participate in today's call due to some unavoidable reasons. Can a member please let me know what were the main discussion points? Thanks!
Hi Limming,

We will be putting out a newsletter in the next few days regarding upcoming action items.

That said, the main takeaway is the next 50 days Congress is out of session and it is considered a constituent service period. Your house rep is running for reelection and now is the best time to reach out to push for our agenda.

This fall will bring in an opportunity to get per-country done (either standalone or part of another bill) - but only IF we can add more sponsors for HR.213. All steps towards getting more sponsors for HR.213 is here

The call was long (almost 2.5 hours) and many other things were covered including popular misconceptions in our community like petitions, Recapture (both legislatively and administratively), dependent exemption (both legislatively and administratively), possibility of lawsuits towards the administration and many other things.

Also, I-140 EAD doesn't look good. So, the long and short of it is we are left with a decent opportunity to get per-country done in either the September or lame-duck sessions of Congress, but everybody is going to have to step up and do their share

Thanks for your interest and support.
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Old 07-17-2016, 11:36 PM
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Hi hil3182,
Thanks for the reply- much appreciated. I will get in touch with my state chapter of IV.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Limmig View Post
Hi hil3182,
Thanks for the reply- much appreciated. I will get in touch with my state chapter of IV.
Thank you for your maturity Limmig.

The hi-jacking of the I140-EAD rule is heartbreaking to us who spent so much time on this. I only joined IV a couple of years ago, but Aman and his generation of people have been pushing it since the last year of the Bush administration - around 2007. It got derailed when the economy tanked with the financial crisis.


But unfortunately, people on the web seem fixated on it. It is time to move on to what is possible in the next few months. If we stay fixated on things that are impossibilities (like I140-EAD through Executive Action in this Administration, Recapture/Dependent exemption both legislatively and administratively) - the backlog is so bad, we won't just spend decades in the backlog, we will actually die in it. H4-dependent children that are not citizens will also most likely die in the backlog.


I wish I were exaggerating, I am not.


For our efforts to be effective, we need the messaging to be very targeted and simple - that is why when you do meetings with your Representative's office, please just talk about per-country cap and the talking points mentioned in the guide we published.


Also, please don't just join a State Chapter and wait for meetings to happen. Set up a meeting on your own and invite people to join you. Don't do a poll asking your fellow members in the State Chapter for when it is convenient (or what offices and so on) - if people are genuinely interested in getting out of this backlog, they will find a way to join you in your meeting. A lot of people think joining a State Chapter - in its-self helps. The reality is if you aren't doing meetings with lawmakers, joining a State Chapter is just as useless as signing a petition.
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:52 PM
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Default Ah the Humanity!

I've been trying to convince some folks who follow me on Twitter to call their congressmen. Here is one conversation I got into with one person (who I'll keep anonymous) who continues to tweet about 140-EAD.

I'm just posting it here so that folks realize that we're becoming our own enemies here by letting our egos get into the mix. It is also evident how little we all know about the bill or general Legislative lobbying. So hopefully this will get some folks who are on the fence to jump in.

We should not be making it difficult for each other to have conversations over matters so important as this - No wonder IV takes the tone it takes because our community doesn't seem to be mature enough for a long grind (which this will take)

People who want to "Do it all" never bother to include Calling their Congressman in the "Doing it all" part.

************************************************** **************************

(((Me))) It doesn't look like the 140-EAD rule is going to be fixed. So, please spare some time and meet with your Congressman over the next few weeks asking for co-sponsorship for HR213. I met with mine already and it was incredibly easy to set up (just one phone call did it). Just focus on HR213 and that's it - it becomes quite a straightforward conversation. Please let me know if you already have the meeting and need talking points - I can send over some info. Time to take the matter in your own hands!
(((IV Skeptic))) Why not ask him/her to send a letter to USCIS supporting our points in RIN1615-AC05 and ask to release it for the immediate benefit for us
(((Me))) You could do that too. But chances are that the message will get muddled and what is likely will not even happen. Politics is all about horse-trading. So HR213 is the best shot. And typically you don't want to ask for anything that might sound controversial (like Admin Fixes) without knowing about the entire political jockeying your congressman\senator might be doing.

(((IV Skeptic))) There are so many people who dont want to wait for years to get HR213 out, its a very long process. we need to fight for this rule right now is what i think
((((Me)))) The rule is dead my friend. It won't happen - I'm pissed about it but that is the truth. HR213 has a real chance and if we can get more co-sponsors it will become the law by Dec.. much faster than any administrative fix.


(((IV Skeptic))) There won't be any laws passed until new president is in office, which is jan and then daca dapa is priority. how's dec timline possible?
((((Me)))) No one wants to wait for a single day more. Not just you. We need to realize the extent of the problem and place our bets on what has the best shot. The Admin fixes have been derailed. Legislative Fixes are our best shot. Please go talk to your Congressman. There is a whole lame duck session from Sep through Nov. This is where they pass all the must-pass Bills including Appropriations.. For once, trust someone else and spend some time talking to your Congressman. If I'm wrong you haven't lost anything but a few hours. There is a good chance that a bill like HR213 can be attached to some other must-pass Bill and it will hvae to be signed by Nov .. before Congress ends. So This is REALLY Possible. But we all have to stop moving in differnt directions and face the same side. I wouldn't spend so much time trying to convince you (a stranger on Twitter)if I didn't believe it was a possibility.

(((IV Skeptic))) We have to try for both, what's wrong in that? why should we choose one over the other? Leave no stone unturned. I will work on all possibilities. Agree?
((((Me)))) I would suggest otherwise. I have dealt with these public agencies and officials for a long time now. They will NOT give you their attention if you complicate the message. You have to pick ONE topic and stick to it. Trust me that is how it works. You will do all the hard work and then find out that nothing got done. The latino community is successful despite being illegals because they have a simple message... Don't break families apart. Our message HAS to be No Per Country Limits. Plain and Simple. It will Fix everything you want fixed. Most of these officials are not aware of the issue.. you will spend a lot of time educating them.. Trust me on that! So when you do that.. you want your messgae to be simple and not get into explaining what 140 is, admin fixes, USCIS etc. etc. HR213 is about first come first serve allocation of visas without discrimination based on country of birth. When you are dealing with a sophisticated machinery like American Politics.. "trying all options" can cause unseen damage.. You are better off turning only the cards you know are winners.

((((Me)))) Part of the problem with our community is that we just cannot come together on even simple ideas.. and are our own worst enemies. So we end up getting the treatment we really deserve. Everybody (lawyers, companies, politicains) exploit us for that. So, please please please.. Call your Congressman and setup some face time. Take your friends, family or just go alone and ask them to co-sponsor HR213. You will lose NOTHING by doing that..Ping me if you have any questions on what to talk, how to setup a meeting etc. Let's get this done!!!


(((IV Skeptic))) I did some research. The House is getting out in november, and also the president. If the regulation was not even introduced in almost two years, its very ambitious to even think they will introduce and pass it now by december. I think you are placing your hopes on the wrong thing here.
(((Me))) Alright. Feel free to sit on ur butt and do nothing. You're willing to place ur hopes on 140 EAD that ain't happening (you'll see in a few months) but not looking at the big picture. If you do some more research you'll see that most immigration bills have passed in lame duck sessions just like this one. If u are too lazy or scared to pick up the phone, call ur Congressman and fight for ur family and their rights then good luck to us all.


(((IV Skeptic))) look dude, this is the thing with you IV people, there is no sane discussion with you fellows. its either what they preach is final or others are sitting on butt. shut up and gtfo my face.
(((Me))) I'm not IV and I don't speak for them. But we're on the same side you and me - the issues that affect you affect me too. I never did anything until recently. But when I saw how systematically everything has been derailed and watered down (Visa Bulletin, 140-EAD) I thought to myself why not just meet with the Congressman. If IV is wrong I've just lost a few hours. But if they're right then I've done something for my own cause. So all I'm asking u to do is talk to ur Congressman about HR213.. you can still do anything else you want to do.. but also do this while your Congressman is in ur district. You'll not get that opportunity again after a few weeks. What do you have to lose?

(((IV Skeptic))) I will look into meeting people, i am not saying I won't.
(((IV Skeptic))) how many have you met?
(((IV Skeptic))) who are the important people?
(((IV Skeptic))) who will bring it to vote?
(((IV Skeptic))) how many cosponsors we need to make sure it comes to vote

(((Me))) Good. That's all I'm asking. Most folks never do anything other than tweeting and FBing.. if we have to do all of it.. we really have to do all of it. Not just the social media part. We have 69 already.. I think a 100+ will help. I've met with all of mine; It was incredibly easy.. I was surprised myself.


(((IV Skeptic))) what's your id on t.r.a.c.k.i.t.t
(((Me))) I'm not on t.r.a.c.k.i.t.t
(((IV Skeptic))) How come? Everyone is discussing many things there and giving each other support
((((Me))) It is really all speculation and no real action. I'm fed up of doing forums. I used to read those but all I ended up with is getting more frustrated and angry. So I decided to bother the fuck out of these politicians

(((IV Skeptic))) With hr213 how quick the backlog will be resolved and till then what is the short term relief. I am not arguing i am discussing
((((Me))) Take a read at the bill please - it is all very self explanatory.

(((IV Skeptic))) Have you done anything or want to do anything for EAD rule? or just given up based on IVs statement you are campaigning for it so you should already have read it, so asking. Its says remove country cap but whats you estimate to see benefits

((((Me))) I've done some: sent flowers, attended DhS calls, tweeted, commented, contributed 1000s of $s.. all that stuff but now I decided to do the one thing I never did - face to face conversations with politicians. U can continue to play hard to get and think you're smart by doing that or u can do some homework and we can have a real conversation. Making it hard for me and not calling it Congressman hurts all of us

(((IV Skeptic))) I will decide on what i need to do. thanks for the info. bye

((((Me))) Ok. Thanks. Good luck of u decide to talk to them. Feel free to ping if I can help anyway.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2016, 09:45 AM
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Hil3182-that makes sense. The guide is really useful- it's clear and concise and covers all bases.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2016, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RandomizedPrecision View Post
I've been trying to convince some folks who follow me on Twitter to call their congressmen. Here is one conversation I got into with one person (who I'll keep anonymous) who continues to tweet about 140-EAD.
...
Great post. I showed it to Aman and he agreed.

Most people don't understand - we aren't against I140-EAD - it is our idea. It just isn't possible right now.

In 2014, we were telling people that administrative Recapture and Dependent exemption is not possible under the law and I140-EAD is the only possibility - and we took a lot of abuse for it. [You can read more about it here (Possible Administrative Fixes - Filtering facts from fiction). Note how we kept warning people about what lawyers and companies were doing behind the scenes - and no one took us seriously]. We know that administrative Recapture and Dependent exemption is not possible under the law, because we asked the administration and they told us. Getting a million signatures on a petition will not change this simple truth.

Unfortunately, our people will always be behind - when I140-EAD was possible, they wasted time talking about Recapture and Dependent exemption (which is a trap set by lawyers and employer groups - but that is a different story), when HR.213 is possible and I140-EAD has been totally derailed (by those same lawyers & employer groups) - people will fixate on tweeting and petitioning for I140-EAD (not that it is going to do any good - even if it were still possible).

Next year, people will be talking about per-country cap, but it will be too late.

We have a 50 day window to put pressure on Congress to get HR.213 done and end this nightmare. Instead people want to sign petitions, tweet about petitions, make video's and fliers about petitions (Is that the best way to spend your time - seriously?).

We are our own worst enemies here. Until our people learn to filter out the truth from the bullshit, we will all be stuck in this miserable backlog.

Please visit your Representative, nothing else matters. Schedule a meeting, join a state chapter and find someone to join you. It isn't rocket science, we have clear instructions on how to do it.
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Last edited by hil3182; 07-20-2016 at 11:39 AM.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2016, 02:45 AM
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I am a follower of IV as well as this group which has started the petition.

We all know that this petition is something that may not yield any results. We also know that this HR.213 bill will not yield any results either. Because of the deadlock between republicans and democrats. That will not change.

We are trying our efforts here as well and there as well. Signing this petition does not take more than a minute, let us do that. And let us continue to try to contact our local representatives, and we will try to work on this front as well. Just because IV believes in their effort does not mean that they should not believe in their effort.

We will get more visibility, if not anything. Please sign.

Please sign there and fight here as well. Good luck!
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2016, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bpk View Post
I am a follower of IV as well as this group which has started the petition.

We all know that this petition is something that may not yield any results. We also know that this HR.213 bill will not yield any results either. Because of the deadlock between republicans and democrats. That will not change.

We are trying our efforts here as well and there as well. Signing this petition does not take more than a minute, let us do that. And let us continue to try to contact our local representatives, and we will try to work on this front as well. Just because IV believes in their effort does not mean that they should not believe in their effort.

We will get more visibility, if not anything. Please sign.

Please sign there and fight here as well. Good luck!
Alas! Only if that were true. I bet that not a single soul from the 50k+ petition signers have placed a single phone call. Instead they are busy working on powerpoints, videos, images, strip-shows and poledances just to get people to sign up. In the time that it took you to write your comment above, you could have made 5 phone calls to your Congressmen but I bet you haven't done that and there is a good chance that you don't even know who your Congressman is!

Watch this if you really want to know why IV talks about real face to face advocacy vs petitions. https://t.co/Rl8KAF7gWK

Pay specific attention to the first minute and a half to see what exactly your petitioning and tweeting will accomplish. Also pay attention to where he says that real humanoid Congressmen make decisions based on how many god-damn calls they receive. Not based on a goddamn petition!

If you need more evidence, just click a little more and look at the Graveyard of "Successful" Petitions here: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/res...onswithupdates

Click on any of these and you will notice the boiler-plate bullshit that you get as a response. The results that you have are exactly proportional to the effort that you put in i.e. ZERO!

It is unfortunate that we all expect an easy fix to a problem that has been fermenting since decades now. It is NOT easy so any solution that you pick that looks easy isn't going to be effective.

Btw, Calling my Congressman's local and DC offices took me less time than typing this fucking note! So wake up and please do that too! Better yet if you can convince the 50k folks who signed the petition to do that, then we'd be having a vote on HR213 by September!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2016, 07:29 AM
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I just woke up and saw this. So, you would rather crib about their pole dances, and not sign a simple petition, which would not even take 10 seconds. You would write here not to follow them and do your pole dances for 10 mins (I am just re-quoting you, as you mentioned that the fight for green cards and legal immigration is a pole dance), and not spend 10 seconds. You can talk all you want about your agenda, but don't discourage people from signing that petition. It will only take 10 seconds. At least it will get us the visibility, and keep calling your congressman and continue to follow up on our issues.

P. S.: Before you say that I am troll from there, let me assure you, that I am not. I just joined that group pretty recently, and I have posted more comments here, than I have posted over there.

Anyways, at the end of the day it is your call. And Good Luck!
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2016, 10:24 AM
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I just woke up and saw this. So, you would rather crib about their pole dances, and not sign a simple petition, which would not even take 10 seconds. You would write here not to follow them and do your pole dances for 10 mins (I am just re-quoting you, as you mentioned that the fight for green cards and legal immigration is a pole dance), and not spend 10 seconds. You can talk all you want about your agenda, but don't discourage people from signing that petition. It will only take 10 seconds. At least it will get us the visibility, and keep calling your congressman and continue to follow up on our issues.

P. S.: Before you say that I am troll from there, let me assure you, that I am not. I just joined that group pretty recently, and I have posted more comments here, than I have posted over there.

Anyways, at the end of the day it is your call. And Good Luck!
Nah. You haven't "woken up" yet. Coz if you had you'd have watched the video, looked at the Petition Graveyard, realized how futile those actions are and begun making those phone calls pronto like your livelihood depended on it (coz it really does)

Also, your comments or mine (or anyone else's) on this forum (or any other) are utterly useless. Lawmakers don't care how much commentary you (or I) have barfed up anywhere. They are motivated only by what they hear from their constituents.

I never understood the IV stand against petitions until recently. But when you see that thousands of so called "highly-skilled" individuals spending time on forums on useless blather, drawing up petitions and drumming up support for them while NONE of them will place a phone call to their Representative then you have to conclude that we're just idiots who tend to think that we've done our job by petitioning and tweeting about it. The reality is that there was zero impact of any of those actions!

Have you seen the undocumented launch petitions? Have you seen the NRA draw up petitions? Have you seen the Immigration Lawyers, Silicon Valley, FWD.us, US Chamber, Koch Brothers... or any fucking real advocacy group draw up petitions? The answer is a resounding NO - coz they are toothless and the responses you'll get (if you do get any) will be worthless.

So.. my friend...please, please, please with a cherry on top realize the futility of your actions before you ask more people to join the petition club. And if you are really one of those "Do it all" campers then please act as you say.. and Advocate for making Phone calls as well.. Rather have people make the phone calls first and then sign on whatever the heck you want to sign..

You can launch a petition anytime.. but we have just 50 days to convince Congressmen to co-sponsor the bill while they are in their districts on recess. Don't waste this time and please make those phone calls.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2016, 11:12 AM
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Made some corrections to your post:

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Originally Posted by bpk View Post
We all know that this petition is something that WILL not yield any results. We also know that this HR.213 bill MAY not yield any results either. Because of the deadlock between republicans and democrats. That will not change.
We are not stupid. I don't want to get into details about why we think you are wrong, but we would not be wasting our lives flogging HR.213 if it had no chance. Similarly, we will spend time prevent 100,000's of others from wasting time on Petitions when they can be doing things to help instead.

RandomizedPrecision is spot-on in his criticism of this petition nonsense - including people pole-dancing to attract attention for a useless cause.

It would be much more valuable if people picked up the phone and made an appointment with their Rep's office.

Every signature on a petition is another nail in our collective coffin.
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Last edited by hil3182; 07-21-2016 at 11:31 AM.
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