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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007, 08:50 PM
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Default Correction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by senthil1
There is no surprise for visblity of illegals. Reason they are 12 million people impacted.Legal immigrants who are impacted are a few hundred thousand. And Illegas cannot lead a comfortable life when they leave USA. But H1bs can go India or any other country to get high paid job. Also Top class jobs are less than 20% of USA workforce but low skill jobs are more than 80%. Illegals are aiming those 80% of jobs. Layoffs are common in high tech jobs when economy slows. So Americans are afraid of H1bs whereas layoffs are not common in low skilled jobs(even a Macdonald worker laid off he can get a similar job easily in any economy. So americans are not afraid of illegals. but in bad economy if a programmer loses a job then it is taking months or years to get a suitable job). Unless american jobs are protected from H1b there is going to be stiff oppostion to H1b and Gc increase. There are some protections in current H1b laws but they are just formal and rarely implemented. Now economy is good there is really shortage of skilled people but when they increase H1b too much then supply will increase. Congress should not give what immigration lawyers or Corporations are asking.There should be good mechanism to get more H1bs and Gcs when american workers are not available to those jobs and also some balance between demand and supply. There should be exemptions for Phds and Top scientists from the cap.
GC increase is not taking away jobs, gc petetion is based on an existing job, where a local worker can not found.

Last edited by go_gc_way; 03-03-2007 at 08:53 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007, 11:20 PM
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Default Simplistic Argument

Senthil,
Your argument is simplistic at best. You are basing your argument with the assumption that there is and will always be a fixed pie of jobs and that each time we get a job we displace a local.
But in a capitalistic society like US, it is most of the time about increasing the pie. Look at the google founders and the countless immigrants who increased the size of the pie/jobs. The higher skilled and entreprenurial you are more the chances of you increasing the pie. For that reason there should be no cap on letting smart high skilled people from around the world at any time(recession or not) into US. Low skilled people and no skilled folks should work only on supply and demand basis. This is the view of most economists.
If you do your hi-tech/skilled job really well, you need not fear about replacing an american. But I guess you feel differently....
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007, 11:51 PM
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Default

I am not saying its all wrong but simplistic view of a complex macro- economic issue.
I understand some in H1b visa are not highly skilled either. But thats why we have Eb-1, 2 and 3 for GC. And thats why 1 and 2 should have no cap. For the reason I believe SKIL bill is an excellent bill for america's future.
I commend the people who sponsored the SKIL bill because they dont get too many votes from people they are helping (we will be always be small in number compared to the illegals) and nor will they get too much from corporations which is interested in H1b alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macaca
This argument is not all wrong. The argument is given by anti-legal immigration organizations to lawmakers. This is a reason for not increasing H1B visa quota. I don't know how it relates to retrogression removal.

Anti-legal immigration organizations are also saying most H1B jobs are low skilled. They don't have any problems with Google like founders.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007, 12:35 PM
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Default

This is true. Most of the people in this forum will get gc in a few months or a few years whether skil bill comes or not. They will also compete from new H1bs. But as long as job market is booming no problem. Still unlimted number of H1bs will not be good for America. There should be Cap. Exemptions for exceptional people for jobs like scientists, enterprenurs,Phds is good for America. But exemption of H1B Cap for those doing MS are not needed and that will be only beneficial to Desi Consulting companies and it will increase the supply. Exemption can be given to non dependent H1b employers plus MS people + job requirement is MS.



Quote:
Originally Posted by macaca
They are saying that EB-2 and EB-3 has low skilled persons also. I agree with it and the lawmakers also agree with it.

They were discussing it on CNN sometime back. A professor at UC Berkely, who was labor secretary in Clinton's administration, was agreeing and saying that Americans should go for higher education and look at higher levels.

This will happen to H1B's after they get GC: new H1B's will take their jobs.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007, 02:20 PM
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I will have to disagree with view that we have to be scared of future H1b taking our jobs away.
An entreprenurial society like US benefits a lot from having as many educated people as possible to grow its economy. To say Eb2 or even Eb3 is low skilled is not right. Corporation and entreprenures need these people and a lot of them to innovate and grow and create more jobs and services. Currently there is a hugh supply crisis for these people. I know its true in my company and it is suffering for the lack of not being able to hire fast enough.
Anyway we are going way off topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senthil1
This is true. Most of the people in this forum will get gc in a few months or a few years whether skil bill comes or not. They will also compete from new H1bs. But as long as job market is booming no problem. Still unlimted number of H1bs will not be good for America. There should be Cap. Exemptions for exceptional people for jobs like scientists, enterprenurs,Phds is good for America. But exemption of H1B Cap for those doing MS are not needed and that will be only beneficial to Desi Consulting companies and it will increase the supply. Exemption can be given to non dependent H1b employers plus MS people + job requirement is MS.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007, 03:01 PM
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Default

I am not opposite to H1B as I also came by H1B only. What I am telling is we should not bring too much above the demand. Now everyone accept there is a good demand and H1B Cap should be increased. But The numbers should be based on demand and supply and there should not be unlimited H1b numbers. But I do not have any strong idea how to calculate demand and supply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by seattleGC
I will have to disagree with view that we have to be scared of future H1b taking our jobs away.
An entreprenurial society like US benefits a lot from having as many educated people as possible to grow its economy. To say Eb2 or even Eb3 is low skilled is not right. Corporation and entreprenures need these people and a lot of them to innovate and grow and create more jobs and services. Currently there is a hugh supply crisis for these people. I know its true in my company and it is suffering for the lack of not being able to hire fast enough.
Anyway we are going way off topic.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by senthil1
Exemptions for exceptional people for jobs like scientists, enterprenurs,Phds is good for America.
How do you plan to prove that scientists and PhDs are exceptional people? The MS has traditionally been used as a stepping stone to a GC by foreign students. With the increase in MS programs in China and India, the PHd is heading in the same direction with more students completing their MS in their home countries.

If this can be fixed anywhere from the supply side, it will have to involve a 50%+ reduction in MS/PHd programs in universities. I do not see any chance of that happening.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007, 02:02 PM
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Default Can't we add our agenda in Dream Act- In Senate Version?

Can't we add our agenda in Dream Act- In Senate Version?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007, 02:20 PM
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Default Dream act

Dream act is a symbolic bill (making a statement) that will be added to CIR.

Please remember what we have been saying since few weeks now...

No bill, no provision, no legislation is going to precede CIR. Any congressman can introduce a bill. That doesnt mean anything at all.

Whatever we do, has to be done in CIR and thru CIR. The proponents of DREAM act also know this. But they expect the entire DREAM act to become an amendment to CIR, just like last year when entire SKIL bill became the last minute amendment added to Senate's CIR.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007, 03:45 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
Dream act is a symbolic bill (making a statement) that will be added to CIR.

Please remember what we have been saying since few weeks now...

No bill, no provision, no legislation is going to precede CIR. Any congressman can introduce a bill. That doesnt mean anything at all.

Whatever we do, has to be done in CIR and thru CIR. The proponents of DREAM act also know this. But they expect the entire DREAM act to become an amendment to CIR, just like last year when entire SKIL bill became the last minute amendment added to Senate's CIR.
Thx for the detail Logiclife.
I guess wait for CIR is the need of the days to come...
Get working on ur Congressman and make them aware of Retro.
Contribute and keep increasing memberships.....do ur bit.
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