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Retrogression, priority dates and Visa bulletins Issues surrounding the retrogression of the priority dates for the various employment based categories

View Poll Results: People without Greencards: Is your house buying decision tied to your getting the GC?
no. I have not bought a house, but dont intend to even with GC 24 4.83%
no. I have already bought a house, even without GC 247 49.70%
yes, I will buy a house within 6 months of getting my GC 120 24.14%
yes, I will only buy a house sometime after 6 months of getting my GC 76 15.29%
GC is not tied to my home buying decision. I am waiting for other reasons. 30 6.04%
Voters: 497. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:12 PM
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PD_Dec2002 is a jewel in the rough PD_Dec2002 is a jewel in the rough PD_Dec2002 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendyzhu77
Risk-wise, if you are H1 and kicked back home with 1M debt, you might be able to simply forget about it. if you are GC/citizenship, will you be willing to forfeit that for 1M debt? So, if you are making risky RE investments, H1 is actually better...
You disgust me if you are implying that one can run back to your own country even if you have a debt to pay...just because collection agencies might not be able to touch you.

If that's indeed what you are really implying, then your status in the US (as of today) might be legal and skilled, but it's unfortunate your education and your family values haven't taught you anything.

Thanks,
Jayant
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by prinive
I am not sure why people relate house and GC. if you think you are going to stay in the place for a long time, you should buy the house. I bought my first house before I started my GC is before I filed my lab. I bought the second house after my lab got approved. So I guess there should not be any relation between these two.
Being on H1 complicates things sometimes. I have had friends on H1 who got lost their jobs in 2001-end, 2002 when the market was really bad here in the bay area. After scrambling around unsuccessfully for getting an H1 transfer finally called it quits and left for India. Having a 500K-750K USD house to also dispose off in that 3-4 week period where you are scrambling to maintain yours and your family's status can be tricky for some folks.

Once you are ok status-wise even if you lose your job you can take some time to get another one, do something part-time etc. Paying mortgage becomes the only concern, you dont have the sword of making your stay illegal hanging over your head. Last 2-3 years the job market has been good, so getting another job after layoff is no longer as hard as it was in 2002. Wonder if that has helped people make this decision.

Anyway interesting poll results... thanks to all who responded.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default Careful there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PD_Dec2002
You disgust me if you are implying that one can run back to your own country even if you have a debt to pay...just because collection agencies might not be able to touch you.

If that's indeed what you are really implying, then your status in the US (as of today) might be legal and skilled, but it's unfortunate your education and your family values haven't taught you anything.

Thanks,
Jayant
Hey careful there, you want to go easy on judging others.

Also, sometimes, people who are out of status leave US coz they lose H1, job and have to go back.

In 2001, there were times when everyday, cars were left at San Francisco and San Jose airport with keys in the ignition. The owners were H1B employees laid off during the dot com bust who left USA permenantly and did not have time to sell their cars.

H1B is a ruthless status and being out of status, without income is not a very comfy state to be sitting for 6 months in country and waiting for someone to buy your house.

Also, remember, when you foreclose your house by abondoning it, usually, your lender does not lose money. Why? Because during the initial years a huge chunk of your mortgage monthly payment is applied towards interest (like 95% ) and less than 5% is applied to principal. Just look at the amortization table. You can go to bankrate.com and see the mortage calculator. Just enter test numbers like 300,000 loan, 6% interest, 30 year term and look at amortization schedule.

If you sell or foreclose your home in first 2-3 years, you dont make any equity. However the bank wont lose money. They would make good profit coz they have hardly anything they have applied to your principal and majority of chunk has gone towards interest.

So basically, if you go back to your country suddenly due to losing H1 and job, then your car loan will cause more loss to your lender than your home loan will.

Just to keep something in mind.

Last edited by logiclife; 07-31-2007 at 03:43 PM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
I cant believe that about 50% of members are home owners before having GC.
why cant you believe that?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:42 PM
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Default Immigration and Housing

Check out the latest stats from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...ap3967315.html
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:45 PM
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Default Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yabadaba
why cant you believe that?
Because homebuying is a risky proposition without stability of GC ... the reason...read my post above about amortization and how you can gain 0 equity and actually lose money if you buy and sell in less than 2-3 years or buy and abandon (foreclose) in less than 2-3 years.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:56 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
Hey careful there, you want to go easy on judging others.

Also, sometimes, people who are out of status leave US coz they lose H1, job and have to go back.

In 2001, there were times when everyday, cars were left at San Francisco and San Jose airport with keys in the ignition. The owners were H1B employees laid off during the dot com bust who left USA permenantly and did not have time to sell their cars.

H1B is a ruthless status and being out of status, without income is not a very comfy state to be sitting for 6 months in country and waiting for someone to buy your house.

Also, remember, when you foreclose your house by abondoning it, usually, your lender does not lose money. Why? Because during the initial years a huge chunk of your mortgage monthly payment is applied towards interest (like 95% ) and less than 5% is applied to principal. Just look at the amortization table. You can go to bankrate.com and see the mortage calculator. Just enter test numbers like 300,000 loan, 6% interest, 30 year term and look at amortization schedule.

If you sell or foreclose your home in first 2-3 years, you dont make any equity. However the bank wont lose money. They would make good profit coz they have hardly anything they have applied to your principal and majority of chunk has gone towards interest.

So basically, if you go back to your country suddenly due to losing H1 and job, then your car loan will cause more loss to your lender than your home loan will.

Just to keep something in mind.
The suggestion offered was if you want to take risks, take them while you are on H-1B. The reason being you can just wipe off your debt by running away and not paying it. Under no circumstances is this suggestion justifiable.

Thank,
Jayant
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:01 PM
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Default Well

Quote:
Originally Posted by PD_Dec2002
The suggestion offered was if you want to take risks, take them while you are on H-1B. The reason being you can just wipe off your debt by running away and not paying it. Under no circumstances is this suggestion justifiable.

Thank,
Jayant
Well, a bad intent is a bad intent, no matter what. I agree.

However, what I am saying is, if you think that H1B status increases your risk taking ability coz you can wipe your debt and leave country and forget about debt...you are wrong.

That's because if you abandon your house and leave the country, you are the one losing money. Not the bank or lender. Even if bank is losing some money by foreclosing your home and selling it, then they will deduct their loss from your downpayment. So again, you are the one losing money if you think that buying a home on H1 is ok, coz if you lose status, you can abandon and forget about debt.

And that is likely to be true even in cases where cars are abandoned.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
Because homebuying is a risky proposition without stability of GC ... the reason...read my post above about amortization and how you can gain 0 equity and actually lose money if you buy and sell in less than 2-3 years or buy and abandon (foreclose) in less than 2-3 years.
agreed...but that is the situation now. in 2004 interest rates were at 4.5-5 for 10/1 arms and 30 yr fixed etc.

and outside the bay area we did not see double digit growth...but we have seen decent appreciation that has diluted most of the initial risk. if u dont use the house like a piggy bank by borrowing against the equity and are not suckered into an exotic loan product...u will see great benefits of home ownership.

of course this is true for markets where home prices were decently stable.
the home market that I live in....about 90% of people i know are home owners...and all of us bought during the 2002-2005 period.

so it is likely that a significant % of IV meembers are home owners.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
Well, a bad intent is a bad intent, no matter what. I agree.

However, what I am saying is, if you think that H1B status increases your risk taking ability coz you can wipe your debt and leave country and forget about debt...you are wrong.

That's because if you abandon your house and leave the country, you are the one losing money. Not the bank or lender. Even if bank is losing some money by foreclosing your home and selling it, then they will deduct their loss from your downpayment. So again, you are the one losing money if you think that buying a home on H1 is ok, coz if you lose status, you can abandon and forget about debt.

And that is likely to be true even in cases where cars are abandoned.
I guess living in california changes ur perspective on affordable housing. when u have shacks going for a million $ for sure there is significant risk involved even at six figure income levels...but in regular markets in the south - texas, florida, etc home prices in the 2003-2005 were still less than 300k. those that took the plunge have seen great growth.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:16 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
Because homebuying is a risky proposition without stability of GC ... the reason...read my post above about amortization and how you can gain 0 equity and actually lose money if you buy and sell in less than 2-3 years or buy and abandon (foreclose) in less than 2-3 years.

what if hte home appreciates and u already had 20 % downpay done...isnt it good then?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikekilo
what if hte home appreciates and u already had 20 % downpay done...isnt it good then?
it depends on the cost of your house. if ur buying a house for 250k and u put down 50k and the whole cost of mortgage/realtors is 7% ...then ur house needs to appreciate by 17.5k which is not too difficult.

If ur buying a house for 700k and u put ur entire savings of 140k and pay 7% costs = 49k...that is more difficult in a tight market.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 05:06 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
Because homebuying is a risky proposition without stability of GC ... the reason...read my post above about amortization and how you can gain 0 equity and actually lose money if you buy and sell in less than 2-3 years or buy and abandon (foreclose) in less than 2-3 years.
Home buying is always a risk, regardless of immigration status. I bought my home in 2003, at 300k. My credit rating was barely enough to get a sub prime loan. After 2 years i refinanced to a stable 30yr loan at 5.5%. My home is now worth between $480k and $500k. So the choice ended up a good one. I can not buy my home now anyway.
The choice was relatively easy to make because, even if you have to leave the country immediately, you don't have to have it sold by the time you leave. Just list it. You will get your money eventually. Same goes for US citizens who lose their job. If it is security you want, don't do real-estate, you are in the wrong country for that. Go to a communist country.

There is also the option of renting out your house when you have to go back. If the prevailing rent is in accordance with your mortgage, then you can opt to have the house pay for itself. After 30 yrs, you will have a multi-million dollar property. That is a nice retirement in a lot of countries. I still own my first apartment in my home country, which I am renting out. In 12 yrs it will be paid off (at least that is the plan). It will not make me independently wealthy, but it adds up. That is how you retire in this country. Not by social security (I hope you are aware of this).
This is not a question of immigration, but a matter of how comfortable you are with real-estate.

The choice was easy to make at the time because the home prices were soaring anyway. I wouldn't buy that easy now.

Stories about losing money on real-estate are little out of place in immigration debates. If you bought in 2006-2007 and had to sell, yes you lost money. Is that due to your immigration problems ? No, it's bad timing. Everyone has a sob story about losing money in real-estate: divorce, losing jobs, economic downturn, bad credit, or just plain stupid. Don't expect much sympathy there. Everyone is in the same boat.
If you are just in this country, you are out of luck because of the housing peak. You will get another chance in the next decade. If you were here since 2000, and sat on your ass the whole time, it is your own fault. You had the chance to buy. It's the same for everyone: immigrant or citizen.
You have a lot of options to acquire real-estate: if you don't make as much money as you claim you could with a GC, buy a smaller house in a cheaper area. Any new arrivals in this country with no FICO can jack up their FICO to a comfortable +700 score in 2 years (or faster). That's all you need to buy a house.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 05:11 PM
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Default agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by yabadaba
I guess living in california changes ur perspective on affordable housing. when u have shacks going for a million $ for sure there is significant risk involved even at six figure income levels...but in regular markets in the south - texas, florida, etc home prices in the 2003-2005 were still less than 300k. those that took the plunge have seen great growth.
I have to agree with this. In my area you won't find any decent house less than $800k. My landlord was planning to convert our apartment into condo with $300k. I am ready to buy it any time - I don't even consider it "buying a house". It's a one bedroom apartment for $300k !!! While my friend is thinking should he buy a house in Texas for $250k or wait for GC.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2007, 05:20 PM
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gc_in_30_yrs is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up i will buy

i will buy in 6 months once i get my GC
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