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-   -   OutSourcing and its impact on GC Applicants (https://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum2-retrogression-priority-dates-and-visa-bulletins/16100-outsourcing-and-its-impact-on-gc-applicants.html)

vejella 12-13-2007 04:56 PM

OutSourcing and its impact on GC Applicants
 
All,

With the current rate of outsourcing happening around in US and the rate of influx of temporary workers coming in on mostly L1 and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies , i am sceptical about the future of GC aspirants. With the way of GC processing happening which are caused by restrictions /policies of governing bodies and no sight of positive relief in near future i am little apprehensive about the future.

I feel that there might be no areas that are not impacted by Outsourcing boom . Most of the companies that i see and my friends work ,i see many of the operations are outsourced or planning in place to get outsourced.

with the current rate of outsourcing and subprime mess which may cause slow down in economy , i am not sure if there would be any positions to support our AOS , when our PD becomes current. Some times i think , the fight for GC is even worth it.

Every one feel free to post your views/opinions/Analysis on this topic ....

gcformeornot 12-13-2007 05:10 PM

I am possitive its possible
 
I work for a very large Auto company. Now a days most of the new guys are coming on L1 visas. They work like H1 would work at client.

The biggest thing is the work (vehicle design work) witch was considered not outsourcable till few years back started going to India. Few of the L1 do work here in day time.........send data out when its night here...... the guys who work there in India come to US for 2-3 months to get a feel of design work and then work from India....

I aggree 100% on what OP is saying.....

H1BLegal95 12-13-2007 06:19 PM

I tried to recruit 3 guys with 7-8 yrs of experience. We already have a 12 member offshore team...the average asking rate (H1s and citizens) is 90K ..H1B quota restriction is working in our favor very much. Market rate for IT professionals has increased quite handsomely..put ur resume out to dice or monster and see for urselves.

TomPlate 12-13-2007 06:26 PM

Outsourcing is not a good business at all. If you work for a big american consulting company it is good. My company is a big company in India, but still people in my work location think we people are contractors (cheap sweepers) and we are great workers then those people. It is all due to green card I have to stay with this company. Stop outsourcing and IT consulting companies. They never understand that computer is a scrable game.

insbaby 12-13-2007 07:07 PM

Wait for another 4 months...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vejella (Post 205706)
All,
...and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies...

So, you are expecting only few H1B petitions go to USCIS in April 2008?

:)

gc_chahiye 12-13-2007 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H1BLegal95 (Post 205777)
I tried to recruit 3 guys with 7-8 yrs of experience. We already have a 12 member offshore team...the average asking rate (H1s and citizens) is 90K ..H1B quota restriction is working in our favor very much. Market rate for IT professionals has increased quite handsomely..put ur resume out to dice or monster and see for urselves.

this 90k is in which part of the US? A salary number without specifying geography is pretty hard to rate :)

ZeroComplexity 12-13-2007 07:19 PM

What I am finding is, there are not enough people to do the really complicated stuff. Because of demand and supply the salaries are going up for folks that do specialized tech work( say OS Kernel development).

Then again, nothing in this world is too difficult, so lot of this stuff is getting pushed out to development teams outside of the US, where it's cheaper to get it done. The only downside is the ramp up time.

There is a critical point when it becomes too expensive to hire anyone in the US and the folks elsewhere are sufficiently ramped up, at that point we can thank all those who are against employment based immigration and find an alternate career :)

indyanguy 12-13-2007 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H1BLegal95 (Post 205777)
I tried to recruit 3 guys with 7-8 yrs of experience. We already have a 12 member offshore team...the average asking rate (H1s and citizens) is 90K ..H1B quota restriction is working in our favor very much. Market rate for IT professionals has increased quite handsomely..put ur resume out to dice or monster and see for urselves.

I don't think 90k for someone with 7-8 years of experience is high in most parts of US. Market rate for IT professionals might have increased in people working with niche technologies. But in general, I see a down trend. And with more people in the job market in Jan 08 (with AC21), I can predict the rates heading south.

venky08 12-13-2007 07:34 PM

Your are thinking under two assumptions:

1. There is nothing left for innovation in the tech field. so no new job creation is expected in the future.

2. There will be more supply of tech workers which will surpass the job creation rate (if in any amount) thereby depressing the wages.

who is to know that your assumptions are correct? :confused:

Whereas the reality is the job creation has been exponentially growing because of emerging technologies and the will to immigrate to US is surely on decrease and add reverse brain drain to it. So for next 5-10 years it will become increasingly difficult to find talented people as they will be evaporated from the market because of 65K H1B cap for last 3 years and a huge outflux of talented professionals.

I said this before in my previous posts and i will say it again. I you are worth your salt and know what you are doing, you will be worth your weight in gold in coming years. Stick to the fight and get your GC. :cool:

(BTW, for these opinions, i am inspired by a recent book i read on globalization- The world is Flat by Thomas Friedman. I think it shall be a must read for every H1B to GC applicant)


Quote:

Originally Posted by vejella (Post 205706)
All,

With the current rate of outsourcing happening around in US and the rate of influx of temporary workers coming in on mostly L1 and may be few on H1 B Visas every year through the outsourcing companies , i am sceptical about the future of GC aspirants. With the way of GC processing happening which are caused by restrictions /policies of governing bodies and no sight of positive relief in near future i am little apprehensive about the future.

I feel that there might be no areas that are not impacted by Outsourcing boom . Most of the companies that i see and my friends work ,i see many of the operations are outsourced or planning in place to get outsourced.

with the current rate of outsourcing and subprime mess which may cause slow down in economy , i am not sure if there would be any positions to support our AOS , when our PD becomes current. Some times i think , the fight for GC is even worth it.

Every one feel free to post your views/opinions/Analysis on this topic ....


nlssubbu 12-13-2007 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroComplexity (Post 205840)
What I am finding is, there are not enough people to do the really complicated stuff. Because of demand and supply the salaries are going up for folks that do specialized tech work( say OS Kernel development).

Then again, nothing in this world is too difficult, so lot of this stuff is getting pushed out to development teams outside of the US, where it's cheaper to get it done. The only downside is the ramp up time.

There is a critical point when it becomes too expensive to hire anyone in the US and the folks elsewhere are sufficiently ramped up, at that point we can thank all those who are against employment based immigration and find an alternate career :)

It is also obvious that the current graduates are more reluctant to take up jobs in US or stay here for a long time due to the following:

1. Messy GC process as more students are becoming aware of the situation
2. Ability to work freely in a competitive environment
3. Boom in their home country (India and China) [A survey shows that majority of foreign students are from these countries]
4. Ability to start at higher levels over there compared to start up jobs over here
5. Can stay with family

In our team, we are trying to hire 3 full time employees in west cost with specific skill set and could not succeed for the past 6 months :( One of my friend who is leading a team, recently want to expand his team had a similar issue. He finally setup an office in India and recruited people over there.

These trends clearly indicate that US is loosing clear competitive advantage and more jobs are moving off-shore.

If for some reason I move back to India, I am sure that I will be taking away as many as 10 jobs along with me as well :)

Thanks

santiwar 12-13-2007 07:58 PM

Being an eternal optimist, I am still hanging in there with a hope that things will change after the next Presidential elections.

Hopefully all the buzz surrounding alterantive energy will result in some sizeable investment by the government in technology if we have a democrat as a President. But if the status quo continues, they will be spending their money in building meuseums in kansas refuting the theroy of evolution and 'Intelligent Design' and other such right-wing manusha!

My point is, it aint over till the fat lady sings, and thank god Lou Dobbs can't sing (I hope) :p

vejella 12-13-2007 10:59 PM

Like your optimism
 
Venky ,

good to hear your positive approach toward future . But realistically , i wonder how long does it take for a new innovation to get outsourced . AS Narayana murthy said , there would not be anything which does not need human contact in coming future that cannot be out sourced ...(not exact words but with same intent :o



Quote:

Originally Posted by venky08 (Post 205848)
Your are thinking under two assumptions:

1. There is nothing left for innovation in the tech field. so no new job creation is expected in the future.

2. There will be more supply of tech workers which will surpass the job creation rate (if in any amount) thereby depressing the wages.

who is to know that your assumptions are correct? :confused:

Whereas the reality is the job creation has been exponentially growing because of emerging technologies and the will to immigrate to US is surely on decrease and add reverse brain drain to it.
but there is increasing work force on the other side world who is dreaming to come here ...so i feel the rate of reverse brain drain will be less that influx as long as the demand exist.

So for next 5-10 years it will become increasingly difficult to find talented people as they will be evaporated from the market because of 65K H1B cap for last 3 years and a huge outflux of talented professionals.

I said this before in my previous posts and i will say it again. I you are worth your salt and know what you are doing, you will be worth your weight in gold in coming years. Stick to the fight and get your GC. :cool:

--- i should stop going to GYM so can i weigh more :o


(BTW, for these opinions, i am inspired by a recent book i read on globalization- The world is Flat by Thomas Friedman. I think it shall be a must read for every H1B to GC applicant)


gcgamble 12-13-2007 11:14 PM

What about long term benifit..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeye (Post 205906)
I always wonder and think what we do more that cannot be done offshore in India. As a business owner you are always concerned about bottomline. I work for IBM and I am on short assignments at different client locations, during early 2000s some offices used to have exclusive american staff (or should say white) then it was Indians on H1 Bs and now there are more Indians in offices than americans and if I check who they are, 90% of the time they are on site from a outsourcing companies. So I see that as a trend. As a CIO you got to wonder if I employ 90 out 100 of my staff who are high skilled Indians here why cant I just go to India and get them for cheap and tell my fellow CIO buddies how I saved money and how they should also do it. So it is a combination of cost benefits and chain reaction.

Even I feel what I can I do which my fellow Indian in India cant do, since considering we went to same school etc. It is not like we are inventing rockets here we are all intelligent people to some degree and hard work is part of our blood so if I can do it I bet my neighbor can also do it.I think it not far when everything repeatable will be moved to India same as why you do not find very many americans laying a optic wire cable or digging a road, but almost 100% of the time the optic fibre company boss is American and usually white.

I understand CIO line of thinking ...he may see all indians around and think of offshoring ..but he dont realize the desi consultants are here through a preferred vendor who might be american who is getting business through this placement and he might be employing one american and so the chain goes on ....But when he says to CIOs and every one start doing the same ..then after some time the Job growth decreases, so is consumer spending ...And as a result ,this CIO may be layed off ,as a part of cost cutting measures and Outsource his job too ...:D

At the same time i dont know enough to take any side between free trade and protectionism....

Redeye 12-14-2007 12:19 AM

Do you really think
 
Understand that, but do you really think (s)he is worried about that at this moment any more than his next board meeting with the board members and CEO. Not increasing H1B quota itself and allowing lottery for highly skilled program, go figure sends some signal that they do not care if you graduate from MIT or from an unknown university in tahiti. How do you really test highly skilled??? by lottery?? dah!!!

From a senator or CIO level of view if you can get it cheap why not. It comes down to Toyota carolla or Mercedes CLS550 when you are only concerned about getting from point A to point B, enjoying the ride is not in question here.

chmur 12-14-2007 12:27 AM

India is not all that Rosy Either
 
To highlight other point of view and keep the debate balanced... It ain't rosy on the other side(India) either.

There is a severe shortage of highly skilled personnel in India too.
For those talents , salaries have gone through the roof. Add to that rupee has appreciated a whopping 11% this year...significantly compromising cost advantage.

attrition is a problem to get anything significant done . There are many stories of companies moving out of india due to attrition.

and for those outsourcing companies like wipro , infy etc where name of the game is pure staff augumentation/outsourcing ..... immigration issues will hit their business too.


Add to that all the peripheral issues with doing business in India ....poor infrastructure, cultural issues and overhead/risk of managing distributed teams etc ...

Pure outsourcing/staff augumentation business model employed by Indian bell weather IT companies is finally being challenged.

Simply put: There ain,t free lunch, anywhere.


IMO: Purely from career standpoint , getting a greencard and staying put in US, is still the best option by a distance.


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