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Retrogression, priority dates and Visa bulletins Issues surrounding the retrogression of the priority dates for the various employment based categories

View Poll Results: Persuade DOS to make EB2IC dates current
Agree 118 51.30%
Agree and will contact Local Senators/Congressmen etc 33 14.35%
Do not agree 79 34.35%
Voters: 230. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:20 AM
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Thanks for your thoughts!

My response in-line


Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_waiting View Post
What makes you think IV is not already dedicatedly working on these initiatives.


<skpanda> From what I have observed on IV website/forums (since I joined about 1 month ago) I have not seen this iniative that I posted in this thread. The closest initiative that I found related to this is - trying to persuade DOS to allow everybody to file 485/EAD/AP even when the PD is not current. That is a wonderful initiative and I sent an email to volunteer. Have not heard back from IV co-ordinators so far.

IV agenda is not based on emotions or visa bulletins but long term lobbying with the USCIS and Congress. Simply starting a post with a set of action items one person thinks are needed - does not work.

<skpanda> I doubt if you were a founding member of IV but in my opinion your statement is illogical. Go check with a founding member of IV. FYI ideas come from individuals like you and me.

What is IV? Who is IV? IV is people like you and me. An Idea can be good or bad. You would not know unless it is posted in open forum and people's views are welcomed. Read my posts in this thread, I have supported all valid views in this thread, whether they are in favor or against of the initiative I started.



As you might have seen, people are already jumping with their specific agenda (someone said they will work only if visa recapture is added etc etc)

<skpanda> Except for few dedicated IV members (who may already be GC holders or Citizens), everybody else in this forum has one specific agenda. To get their Green Card. Plain and simple. To make sure people get GC, they have to do whatever they can in their power. People can donate money, their time in IV efforts and other great initiatives. They will do that only when 'their specific agenda' of getting GC is heard. We have all kinds of people and there are different ways in which they show their thoughts. If some people feel a specific idea/method should be chosen, there should be open discussion. I am confident the IV core team is competant enough to decide whether a particular idea is worth pursuing or not.

and this thread will go on for a few days and there will be some arguments and then it will die. We have seen this on the forum for years now.


<skpanda> May be that is what will happen. I will not regret. At the very least I will try my best to do whatever I can on this initiative.


IV initiatives are not about starting a thread on the forums. We all know what the problems are...and if you have participated and volunteered for IV advocacy days and other grassroots initiaties you will know that there are multiple efforts ongoing to address EB issues. So its better for folks to get involved in real efforts rather than trying to start their own individual initiative which is doomed from the very moment you start such a thread.

<skpanda> Let me ask you this. Have you joined IV at the very begining? Have you participated in all the initiatives that IV has taken since 2005? I doubt it. Do not blame me for not participating in an event that happened in the past. I came to know about IV 1 month ago and am learning many new things every day. I have been trying to actively participate in initiatives of IV. In future I will try to do whatever I can to assist IV and share knowledge to people in this forum.


Good Luck to you my friend!


Last edited by skpanda; 06-12-2011 at 12:24 AM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:35 AM
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Ideas are good. But the right approach is to contact the IV core/coordinator and learn about current initiatives and try to contribute to specific organizational objectives. No lawmaker or agency will listen to individuals.
Regarding my role, I have participated in both IV advocacy days and met lawmakers in my and 5 neighboring districts with IV agenda packets. When you meet a staffer at these offices and hear BS about CIR and low-skilled immigration being more important..you will realize how silly our members are when it comes to being arm-chair critics and throwing out wild ideas on an anonymous forum.
The bottomline of my response is if you are unaware or naive about how high-skilled immigration agenda works - starting a naive thread is the wrong approach. Contact pappu or starsun and learn about how to positively contribute to get EB out of this mess...rather than focussing on a wrong approach. A good idea (which is what you claim to have) with a wrong approach is a useless idea.

Good Luck to You too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skpanda View Post
Thanks for your thoughts!

My response in-line
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:59 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skpanda View Post
I am very sorry to hear that my friend. My condolences. I can just dream of understanding your situation. I sincerely pray for you and your family and wish your situation improves. I know that cannot make it up to the harrowing times that you have gone thru... Good luck to you!
@Chikna: My heartily condolence for the situation you are having. Recently I have booked tickets to India to visit my sick aunt;(suppose to travel in next week). But at last minute I had cancelled my tickets with fear of rejection of my H1.


For some reason I can not accept this proposal which would benefit only EB2 in EB group. With all the due respect to Skpanda, TeddyKouch and gurus please please think of EB3 people and help everyone in EB.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 01:26 AM
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There is no merit to this EB2 v/s EB3 argument. Please do not waste your time on this argument. You are wasting bandwidth and your time arguing who needs more help or what should be the priority. Often times applicants presents a case/idea/solution in a manner exactly to fit their own application process. And then they aregue that their's is a unique idea and then they feel frustrated with everyone else that why others are finding it so hard to understand or agree with their idea.

In the real this is not how things work as most decision makers will not support a narrow fix which only helps a specific set of applications/cases. We request everyone to be mature and not work against each other but rather work with each other to fix the larger issue.

The way things, nothing happens in vacuum and no measure will pass for the benefit of a specific group of applicants/category. So please don't waste your time on this Eb3 v/s Eb2 argument, and whether you support or oppose any particular provision for a specific category. forever_waiting is absolutely correct in sharing experience about the level of discussion and how things work. We would strongly recommend listening to members who have actively participated in advocacy effort.

Rather, please spend your time calling your lawmakers office for fixing the green card backlogs.

Last edited by Administrator2; 06-12-2011 at 01:39 AM.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 07:56 AM
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May-04
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Contact Local Senators/Congressmen - Need more clarification before I can vote.

How do you propose members do this.
What arguments do we need to present to the lawmakers?
Points that members need to make?
How does this help the country?

Finally the conversation for this "make it current", should not negate or contradict previous coordinated IV efforts.

Please comeup with a "script" as to what to talk to the lawmakers - as long as everyone is singing the same song - we would have better luck. IV Core can help to refine and fine tune the message. Work with IV core.

I understand the sprit of this thread - please contact IV core, they will help you to lead this initiative.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 08:39 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncrtpMay2004 View Post
Contact Local Senators/Congressmen - Need more clarification before I can vote.

How do you propose members do this.
What arguments do we need to present to the lawmakers?
Points that members need to make?
How does this help the country?

Finally the conversation for this "make it current", should not negate or contradict previous coordinated IV efforts.

Please comeup with a "script" as to what to talk to the lawmakers - as long as everyone is singing the same song - we would have better luck. IV Core can help to refine and fine tune the message. Work with IV core.

I understand the sprit of this thread - please contact IV core, they will help you to lead this initiative.
The script for calling to lawmakers offices is simple: "You are a constituent (you live in their district/ state; don't need to be a voter to be a constituent) and you have been stuck in the EB based immigration system for ages now. You would like Congressman/ woman/ senator to be aware of the issue and work for a fix".

Beyond that, the lawmaker offices have very little understanding of priority dates, EAD, AP, not to speak of pipeline creation in EB2IC as they will run out of pre-adjudicated numbers. So in a 5 minute call, when you start talking about these things, nothing will register.

If you meet the lawmakers office in person, that will be even better. What that will do is this - it will start registering in their minds that their constituents have a problem related to EB immigration. Only when they start noticing a local problem that lawmakers will start becoming more aware and educated about our issues. Once they are deeply aware, only then some of them will start even understanding the detailed nuances within it.

While IV does a lot of work in DC, there is real momentum that can only come from grassroots - from people talking about their situation to their Representatives & Senators.
__________________
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 11:20 PM
Senior Member
Priority Date
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Nov-10
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First of all I would like to appreciate and thank you for your efforts towards IVs initiatives in the past and hope people like you will continue to help everybody. I will try to help as much as possible from my side.

I had no intention to bypass IV in this initiative. I have asked for support from IV in this thread. As mentioned earlier, I have joined recently. I do not know who is in IV Core team. I have tried to volunteer for a Initiative (the one the you have in your signature), never received response. I will continue my efforts to volunteer.

Regarding this particular initiative - The poll results speak of people's view on this matter. It would be great if IV supports our initiative. At the very least I, as an Individual, will do my best towards this initiative.

Good Luck to all!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_waiting View Post
Ideas are good. But the right approach is to contact the IV core/coordinator and learn about current initiatives and try to contribute to specific organizational objectives. No lawmaker or agency will listen to individuals.
Regarding my role, I have participated in both IV advocacy days and met lawmakers in my and 5 neighboring districts with IV agenda packets. When you meet a staffer at these offices and hear BS about CIR and low-skilled immigration being more important..you will realize how silly our members are when it comes to being arm-chair critics and throwing out wild ideas on an anonymous forum.
The bottomline of my response is if you are unaware or naive about how high-skilled immigration agenda works - starting a naive thread is the wrong approach. Contact pappu or starsun and learn about how to positively contribute to get EB out of this mess...rather than focussing on a wrong approach. A good idea (which is what you claim to have) with a wrong approach is a useless idea.

Good Luck to You too.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2011, 11:46 PM
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nalam.virumbi.28 is infamous around these parts nalam.virumbi.28 is infamous around these parts nalam.virumbi.28 is infamous around these parts
Default Yeah man, totally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator2 View Post
There is no merit to this EB2 v/s EB3 argument. Please do not waste your time on this argument. You are wasting bandwidth and your time arguing who needs more help or what should be the priority. Often times applicants presents a case/idea/solution in a manner exactly to fit their own application process. And then they aregue that their's is a unique idea and then they feel frustrated with everyone else that why others are finding it so hard to understand or agree with their idea.

In the real this is not how things work as most decision makers will not support a narrow fix which only helps a specific set of applications/cases. We request everyone to be mature and not work against each other but rather work with each other to fix the larger issue.

The way things, nothing happens in vacuum and no measure will pass for the benefit of a specific group of applicants/category. So please don't waste your time on this Eb3 v/s Eb2 argument, and whether you support or oppose any particular provision for a specific category. forever_waiting is absolutely correct in sharing experience about the level of discussion and how things work. We would strongly recommend listening to members who have actively participated in advocacy effort.

Rather, please spend your time calling your lawmakers office for fixing the green card backlogs.
You rock dude... GO IV!

Last edited by nalam.virumbi.28; 06-12-2011 at 11:49 PM.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:07 AM
Senior Member
Priority Date
:
Nov-10
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:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
01/20/2011
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:
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Processing Stage
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Default

Thank you for your thoughts!!

I have cleary requested not to start EB2 v/s EB3 argument. The idea was to request help from IV and people as individuals.

I do admit that this particular initiative will help only 1 category (of which I am part of). But we should understand that any relief that can be obtained to the immigrant community, it should be taken up. Our (IVs) wide range of Initiatives to fix larger issue needs priority and focus, however it may take many years for those to accomplish. Meanwhile if there is a chance to get interim relief to somebody.. why not?

I do not claim my idea is unique. May be thousands of people have same idea. No body floated the idea anywhere so I started it. I respect everybody's view. There is not a single post in this thread where I argued with anybody. I acknowledged other's views and shared mine. I strongly believe that it is ok for other people to disagree with my thoughts and vice versa.

I am NOT frustrated. I do not have the real need to file EAD immidiately (although it would be nice). My PD is Dec 2010. There are people who have waited for 10 years. I can afford to wait 3 years before I get frustrated. This initiative was started to help more than 50K+ people. Real motivation for this was just because this (atleast to me) seemed easy to accomplish and could act as stepping stone for our future initiatives.

As you predicted, this initiative may fail. But of all the people, IV core team would know failure cannot be a deterrent for any initiative. It is also possible that our initiatives for Visa Recpature/removal of 7% country limit/etc etc may never be accomplished. Does that mean we will quit putting in efforts for those initiatives? Definately not!!

I DO NOT WANT TO CONVINCE ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING. IF PEOPLE (Including IV Core Team) THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA AND WORTH PURSUING, WE WILL GO AHEAD AS A TEAM. IF NOT WE AS INDIVIDUALS WHO BELIEVE IN THIS INITIATIVE WILL TAKE IT FURTHER ON OUR OWN CAPACITY. CARE WILL BE TAKEN THAT IV's NAME DOES NOT GET TARNISHED DUE TO THIS INITIATIVE.

Thank you very much friends for participating!!

Good Luck to all!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator2 View Post
There is no merit to this EB2 v/s EB3 argument. Please do not waste your time on this argument. You are wasting bandwidth and your time arguing who needs more help or what should be the priority. Often times applicants presents a case/idea/solution in a manner exactly to fit their own application process. And then they aregue that their's is a unique idea and then they feel frustrated with everyone else that why others are finding it so hard to understand or agree with their idea.

In the real this is not how things work as most decision makers will not support a narrow fix which only helps a specific set of applications/cases. We request everyone to be mature and not work against each other but rather work with each other to fix the larger issue.

The way things, nothing happens in vacuum and no measure will pass for the benefit of a specific group of applicants/category. So please don't waste your time on this Eb3 v/s Eb2 argument, and whether you support or oppose any particular provision for a specific category. forever_waiting is absolutely correct in sharing experience about the level of discussion and how things work. We would strongly recommend listening to members who have actively participated in advocacy effort.

Rather, please spend your time calling your lawmakers office for fixing the green card backlogs.

Last edited by skpanda; 06-13-2011 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Typo - Changed EB to EB3
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:10 AM
Senior Member
Priority Date
:
Nov-10
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
01/20/2011
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:
India
Processing Stage
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I-140
I485 Mailed Date
:
Compare
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 173
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncrtpMay2004 View Post
Contact Local Senators/Congressmen - Need more clarification before I can vote.

How do you propose members do this.
What arguments do we need to present to the lawmakers?
Points that members need to make?
How does this help the country?

Finally the conversation for this "make it current", should not negate or contradict previous coordinated IV efforts.

Please comeup with a "script" as to what to talk to the lawmakers - as long as everyone is singing the same song - we would have better luck. IV Core can help to refine and fine tune the message. Work with IV core.

I understand the sprit of this thread - please contact IV core, they will help you to lead this initiative.

I will update the header with more details!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GCHope2011 View Post
The script for calling to lawmakers offices is simple: "You are a constituent (you live in their district/ state; don't need to be a voter to be a constituent) and you have been stuck in the EB based immigration system for ages now. You would like Congressman/ woman/ senator to be aware of the issue and work for a fix".

Beyond that, the lawmaker offices have very little understanding of priority dates, EAD, AP, not to speak of pipeline creation in EB2IC as they will run out of pre-adjudicated numbers. So in a 5 minute call, when you start talking about these things, nothing will register.

If you meet the lawmakers office in person, that will be even better. What that will do is this - it will start registering in their minds that their constituents have a problem related to EB immigration. Only when they start noticing a local problem that lawmakers will start becoming more aware and educated about our issues. Once they are deeply aware, only then some of them will start even understanding the detailed nuances within it.

While IV does a lot of work in DC, there is real momentum that can only come from grassroots - from people talking about their situation to their Representatives & Senators.
Thank you very much!
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:28 AM
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All that the results of your poll indicate is that there is a divide already since it seems that you want to focus only on making dates current for EB2 IC. Do you even know if approaching lawmakers in the right approach? It could be an administrative fix as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by skpanda View Post
First of all I would like to appreciate and thank you for your efforts towards IVs initiatives in the past and hope people like you will continue to help everybody. I will try to help as much as possible from my side.

I had no intention to bypass IV in this initiative. I have asked for support from IV in this thread. As mentioned earlier, I have joined recently. I do not know who is in IV Core team. I have tried to volunteer for a Initiative (the one the you have in your signature), never received response. I will continue my efforts to volunteer.

Regarding this particular initiative - The poll results speak of people's view on this matter. It would be great if IV supports our initiative. At the very least I, as an Individual, will do my best towards this initiative.

Good Luck to all!!
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:37 AM
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All the poll proves is, its only the EB3s who are opposing this.

But as mentioned previously, Don't expect IV as an organization to take up this action item.

PS: I don't even know why the EB3s are voting here. You can exclude their "negative" votes to get a better idea
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostcause2007 View Post
All that the results of your poll indicate is that there is a divide already since it seems that you want to focus only on making dates current for EB2 IC. Do you even know if approaching lawmakers in the right approach? It could be an administrative fix as well
In my opinion there is no fix required since there is no problem (law) due to which DOS/USCIS is not able to make EB2IC current.

DOS HAS TO ADVANCE DATES. THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE. DOS will advance dates at their own discretion. They can make dates current or advance by few months or years. We just want to request them to make dates current.

Last edited by skpanda; 06-13-2011 at 01:01 AM.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:58 AM
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Well it is ok if people oppose this initiative. This is a free country. Everybody has right to their opinion. We should respect that.

Most people do not like it when some people get relief when they are denied the same. It is a natural phenomenon. World has produced very few people who can be happy for others in this kind of situations. I do not claim to be one of them.

We will contact IV core group in few days once we have a substantial number of votes. They collectively have great experience and insight and these kind of activities. We will leave it to their better judgement.

Good luck to all!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyHK12 View Post
All the poll proves is, its only the EB3s who are opposing this.

But as mentioned previously, Don't expect IV as an organization to take up this action item.

Last edited by skpanda; 06-13-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:38 AM
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EB3
I140 Mailed Date
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02/22/2008
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India
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Default You do not get the point

There was a long-standing poll that occurred between Sep 2010 and April 2011 started by pappu (IV-Core) which asked for response from all people who were waiting to file I-485 to look at initiatives to get DoS/USCIS to make PD current. Around 1500 people voted on that poll but members did not follow-up sufficiently for IV to take up the I485 filing issue with USCIS for an admin fix. As per the experienced campaigners, a massive grass-roots campaign with thousands of people was needed but it did not work out. So the campaign was stopped and the thread was closed. So I hope you understand why educated members here are not trying to oppose but merely trying to point out your initiative is misdirected.

DoS does not HAVE to advance any dates. As per INA they do not HAVE to make dates current. You yourself say it is their prerogative and therefore I fail to understand why they should have to do anything. Just because current EB2 inventory might get exhausted is not enough reason. They can advance by few months, as already being predicted, and get the buffer needed. So what is your reasoning to make dates current.. because you and 30 other people want it?

So if you plan to re-invent the wheel then - as per the earlier IV action item pointed out above - support of 4-5K people will be needed on the poll and then IV might consider. Otherwise you are beating around the bush and misleading the forum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by skpanda View Post
In my opinion there is no fix required since there is no problem (law) due to which DOS/USCIS is not able to make EB2IC current.

DOS HAS TO ADVANCE DATES. THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE. DOS will advance dates at their own discretion. They can make dates current or advance by few months or years. We just want to request them to make dates current.
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