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Retrogression, priority dates and Visa bulletins Issues surrounding the retrogression of the priority dates for the various employment based categories

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:41 PM
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Default Country quota make sence for family and not for employment

Quote:
Originally Posted by IfYouSeekAmy View Post
This would be difficult as this regulation is actually there to make sure that everyone will get a fair chance. It ensures that no one single country can get more than x number of green cards in a year so that the GCs will be equally distributed among all countries.
The country quota to provide a fair chance makes sence for Family immigration or Diversified Lottery. As the basis of these immigration are only by family and does not need any qualification / employment provision/ money.

But the Employment or Investment immigration has criteria based on employment/education/Money invested. These form of immigration should not be based on country cap as it is agaist the basic law of non discrimation in employment based of country of origin.

My personal feeling if persued legally this would be a win case for us.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:55 PM
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Default

The only legal challenge that you can make against a federal law is a constitutional challenge.

So, it important to ask what in the constitution prevents the government from discriminating against incoming immigrants on the basis of race, gender, national origin etc.

There is nothing in the constitution that prevents the govt. from doing that. Remember, constitutional equalities apply to citizens, and to some extent PRs. The do not apply to non-citizens.

A good reference for this is the Chinese Exclusion Act.
Chinese Exclusion Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This law allowed Chinese(and other Asians) to be denied entry and citizenship, and was upheld legally. I was only repealed by legislation and not through court intervention.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 05:02 PM
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Default

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Originally Posted by khodalmd View Post
I differ with you. The US amendments says "no discrimination for employment for sex, color, country of origin etc" Discrimination act does not cover Immigration hence no one can challenge per-country limit for family based immigration. However, Employment based immigration is not only just immigration but it is immigration based on Employment. Once "Employment" issue is partially involved, one can challenge discrimination based on "Country of Origin" . I think, we have some ground. No one has looked seriously in this matter.
khodalmd,

go fast..... fast ...... very fast...... file lawsuit...... u r right...... what r u waiting for...... file lawsuit.... fast fast..... i'll follow u in the news...... this is discrimination against u...... fast..... file lawsuit.....
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 05:06 PM
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Thumbs up

Here we go again. People seriously discussed this on an earlier thread but no one actually filed a lawsuit.

Even though it could be shown that:
employment based GC quota => long delay of more than 5 years => hinderance to career growth because one cannot graduate from engineer to managerial position => person of oversubscribed countries such as India does not have equal opportunity to advancement.

National Origin Discrimination: Whether an employee or job applicant's ancestry is Mexican, Ukrainian, Filipino, Arab, American Indian, or any other nationality, he or she is entitled to the same employment opportunities as anyone else.
National Origin Discrimination

It does not yet apply in my case. But someone with more than 5 years of wait and still in same or similar job description should be able to file a lawsuit against the US Government and claim compensation for the lost opportunities.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:23 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IfYouSeekAmy View Post
This would be difficult as this regulation is actually there to make sure that everyone will get a fair chance. It ensures that no one single country can get more than x number of green cards in a year so that the GCs will be equally distributed among all countries.
That's not accurate or a valid argument, because PEOPLE get GCs, not countries. So equal distribution among countries makes no sense.

Besides it's unfair to the companies sponsoring these people, you're telling them how soon you can get an employee permanent depending on where they're from.

Maybe this has been discussed before ad nauseum, but your labor/140 approvals are all about skills/employer and not country of origin, so this is effectively discrimination.

I do think we have basis for a case.

Last edited by Abhinaym; 10-23-2009 at 01:36 AM. Reason: Incomplete earlier
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:30 AM
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Default No economic justification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhinaym View Post
That's not accurate or a valid argument, because PEOPLE get GCs, not countries. So equal distribution among countries makes no sense.

Besides it's unfair to the companies sponsoring these people, you're telling them you can get an employee permanent depending on

Maybe this has been discussed before ad nauseum, but your labor/140 approvals are all about skills/employer and not country of origin, so this is effectively discrimination.

I do think we have basis for a case.
There is no economic justification either. If there are no 7% candidates from Madagascar but there is a business reason (I-140 approved) then that should be given priority.

There is diversity visa if you want to have more folks from Madagascar.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 02:50 AM
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Default Lawsuit may not be easy!!!

I have spent lot of time and asked couple of lawyers, Lawsuit may not possible on lines of economics, personal loss etc. It is clearly your (I mean employer) decision to wait for the immigrant visa number. US Govt is not forcing anyone.

One more point, if you read INA, it clearly says that the paragraph shouldn't be treated as discrimination. I have also sent couple of emails to Dept. of Justice to review this. But I got no answer from them. There is a Constitutional amendment for citizenship to no discrimination. I am not sure if that can be interpreted for immigration as well. If IV as an organization can reach out to DOJ or Office of Suprem counrt Justice for clarification, we might get some answer. If so, INA becomes invalid and unconstitutional. But in this sue crazy nation, I am sure some one would have gone this route. But we could give a shot..

The only easy workaround is to lobby lawmakers about the stupidity of per country quota in the skilled area and get their support in CIR to remove this. The GOP lawmaker office I talked to was convinced that skill based immigration shouldn't have country quota. My congresswoman was a hardcore right wing person and still was sympathetic.

So it should be very easy for most others to convince their respective lawmakers to eliminate this per country quota in CIR at least for skill based.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 06:51 AM
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Default Here is my 2 cents

When applying for H1B there is no Country quota.. right?( or is it? if yes, pardon my ignorance and dont read below)

Then why country quota for GC?

I know H1B is non-immigrant intent, but if you take GC applicants from EB category all came to US on H1B only, so when u are not maintaining quote in letting people in, why quota for giving GC?

Injustice is done where, If they want work to be done, then they dont care from where he came from.. but to give GC ( and thus by providing him security, freedom, social benefits, medicare etc) they want to do justice to equally (that equal quote per country BS)

doesn't it make valid point?

Coming to lawsuit, I dont think going this way is of any help. It will put us in wrong light also its hard to see people come forward for this. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

Instead why dont a group of people prepare valid case based on the facts and present to various senators or immigration people or who ever consider the immigration issues etc..
Not just one time, periodically untill some one actually listens/acts on.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 09:20 AM
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Default

There are 140K employment visas per year.

There are more applicants, rearranging the queue, that is removing the country cap, will not benefit the EB community as a whole. That is just shifting who is going to wait longer.

For any idea please consider who are the losers and think about how a law maker, judge, policy maker would think.

If we work to increase the total number of employment visas, a solution like “let the market decide”. Then country cap becomes mute.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 11:53 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncrtpMay2004 View Post
There are more applicants, rearranging the queue, that is removing the country cap, will not benefit the EB community as a whole. That is just shifting who is going to wait longer.

For any idea please consider who are the losers and think about how a law maker, judge, policy maker would think.
Well there's nothing wrong with rearranging the queue to make it FIFO. You see anything wrong with FIFO?

It doesn't matter what happens to the community as a whole, as long as it is fairer to those standing in line longer.

Anyhow, the argument has been made ad nauseum, it is time for action. As EB-Voice above said, until we are heard and it is acted upon.

Last edited by Abhinaym; 10-23-2009 at 11:57 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 12:43 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EB-VoiceImmigration View Post
Coming to lawsuit, I dont think going this way is of any help. It will put us in wrong light also its hard to see people come forward for this. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

Instead why dont a group of people prepare valid case based on the facts and present to various senators or immigration people or who ever consider the immigration issues etc..
Not just one time, periodically untill some one actually listens/acts on.
We believe that lawsuit is a wild goose chase on the issue of per-country limits. We have explored that option with multiple lawyers and we have weighed-in legal opinion on this issue. No matter how much aggravation wants us to see it the way to get a quick fix to this problem, the fact is that the current law is very clear on per-country limits. That means there is only option - to change the law.

Regarding contacting lawmakers, Immigration Voice is the only organization working on the issue of removal of per-country limits since Jan-2007. When we started working on this specific provision, at that time, large groups and powerful business associations told us that this is going to be very difficult. But we have continuously worked the issue of removal of per-country limits. Almost every week there are meeting in which we and our representatives speak about this issue and create more education about the backlogs and per-country limits.

Immigration Voice understands and share the frustration and aggravation with the time that it takes to bring a change in a democratic political process. But it is what it is and we have not taken a back seat to anyone on this issue and there is a momentum to fix backlogs and per-country limits issue. Often we see some members express frustration saying that nothing is happening, which is not true. Legislative change comes slow in any large democratic process. And with that momentum that has been build, now other groups have joined in and have started talking about this issue. With the effort that has gone into removal of per country limits, we believe that it will get addressed in the upcoming bill. But we are not there yet and going forward it will not be easy because there could be possible amendments and opposition to the provision when the bill comes up for debate. This is the most critical element of the backlog. And if each one of us continue to do our part and participate in the action items, conducting meetings in the districts and educating lawmakers at the grassroots, we are confident that we will get this major issue fixed in the upcoming bill. We may think that our issues are no brainier but any change in a democratic political system involves educating and convincing one person at a time. So every meeting that members do at the district level has its importance. In next 3 months we expect flurry of activity. It will be upon each one of us to do our share and make those phone calls and write emails/letters, ask friends and colleagues to make phone calls write emails/letters on our behalf support our issues. We expect it will get ugly and it will be difficult. But hey, who said fixing this system will be easy. This is no small change and everyone is getting ready for the big fight. Let each one of us get prepared to roll-up our sleeves and be ready to do our share. Its coming.

Last edited by pappu; 10-23-2009 at 01:25 PM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 12:48 PM
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Thumbs up I pledge $1K to end the country of birth based discrimination efforts

I have received support from most Americans I have discussed this concept with - including IOs - and most are not even aware of this form of discrimination.

Some immigrant applicant folks from smaller countries support the existing practice of discrimination. However their stand is understandable and their selfishness is excusable - because if they or their fellow countrymen truly understood the benefits of a big united nation, their countries would not have been smaller either. Their application to be part of the United States shows their inner instinct towards unification - it needs encouragement so that they can learn this virtue faster than the Chinese, Indian or Mexican nationals who better understand the true meaning of unity in diversity.

I usually don't like lawsuits, but would support an effort to raise this issue - irrespective of the outcome. Let their be a fund drive by IV.

My pledge stands for the general good - in a truely diverse sense - above any man-made divisions of nationalities, religions, ethnicities, color, ..... whether I benefit or not is also immaterial. None knows whether we shall live to see a tomorrow or not. In case I am gone before seeing success, I would have the satisfaction of having stood up for the right cause.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:29 PM
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Default Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator2 View Post
We believe that lawsuit is a wild goose chase on the issue of per-country limits. We have explored that option with multiple lawyers and we have weighed-in legal opinion on this issue. No matter how much aggravation wants us to see it the way to get a quick fix to this problem, the fact is that the current law is very clear on per-country limits. That means there is only option - to change the law.

Regarding contacting lawmakers, Immigration Voice is the only organization working on the issue of removal of per-country limits since Jan-2007. When we started working on this specific provision, at that time, large groups and powerful business associations told us that this is going to be very difficult. But we have continuously worked the issue of removal of per-country limits. Almost every week there are meeting in which we and our representatives speak about this issue and create more education about the backlogs and per-country limits.

Immigration Voice understands and share the frustration and aggravation with the time that it takes to bring a change in a democratic political process. But it is what it is and we have not taken a back seat to anyone on this issue and there is a momentum to fix backlogs and per-country limits issue. Often we see some members express frustration saying that nothing is happening, which is not true. Legislative change comes slow in any large democratic process. And with that momentum that has been build, now other groups have joined in and have started talking about this issue. With the effort that has gone into removal of per country limits, we believe that it will get addressed in the upcoming bill. But we are not there yet and going forward it will not be easy because there could be possible amendments and opposition to the provision when the bill comes up for debate. This is the most critical element of the backlog. And if each one of us continue to do our part and participate in the action items, conducting meetings in the districts and educating lawmakers at the grassroots, we are confident that we will get this major issue fixed in the upcoming bill. We may think that our issues are no brainier but any change in a democratic political system involves educating and convincing one person at a time. So every meeting that members do at the district level has its importance. In next 3 months we expect flurry of activity. It will be upon each one of us to do our share and make those phone calls and write emails/letters, ask friends and colleagues to make phone calls write emails/letters on our behalf support our issues. We expect it will get ugly and it will be difficult. But hey, who said fixing this system will be easy. This is no small change and everyone is getting ready for the big fight. Let each one of us get prepared to roll-up our sleeves and be ready to do our share. Its coming.
The upcoming bill that you refer to, is that CIR or is that a separate bill??
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 01:32 PM
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Total Pending I-485 applications are 233816 and USCIS issues 140000 green cards per year. So if per country limits are removed, everyone will get greencard in 2 years.
I do not know why ROW people are unhappy. Even they will get greencard in 2 years. Only EB2 ROW will get greencard in 2 years instead of 1 year. So what is the big deal?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-23-2009, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by imh1b View Post
Total Pending I-485 applications are 233816 and USCIS issues 140000 green cards per year. So if per country limits are removed, everyone will get greencard in 2 years.
I do not know why ROW people are unhappy. Even they will get greencard in 2 years. Only EB2 ROW will get greencard in 2 years instead of 1 year. So what is the big deal?
EB2 ROW gets it in 2-3 months not an year. Read and weep that a person with the same or lesser skillset than yours, can practically walk off with a GC almost as soon as applying for it.
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