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PERM Processing Labor processing through PERM

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 09:02 PM
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Default Letter from HR regarding Green Card sponsoring

Your question is understandable.
You’re correct that XXX’s PERM application was approved. This is, indeed, good news. However, it does not mean that labor is no longer an issue or that responding to queries is easy. Let me see if I can clarify this for you.
We initiated the recruiting process for XXX in early 2008. At that time, we were not able to identify any qualified US workers during the recruiting phase. We were able to go to the next step in the process (submit his PERM application) because we were able to state that no other qualified US workers were available to fill the position. His PERM application was filed in July/08 and wasn’t approved until this month – 2 years later.
As you know, we had every intention of submitting a PERM application on your behalf as well. Unfortunately, when we went through the recruiting process, we were able to identify US workers who met the minimum qualifications for the position and were available to work. Therefore, we could not proceed to the next step because we were not able to state that no other qualified US workers were available to fill the position. If we find qualified US workers during the recruiting phase, we cannot continue with the PERM application because it will be denied.
The challenge that faces this company with regard to sponsoring green cards remains the same. Given the labor market conditions (more workers available and looking for work) there is a high probability that we will find US workers during the recruiting phase who meet the minimum qualifications and are available to work. That means we can’t submit the PERM application because it will be denied. Or, to put it another way, it is unlikely that we’ll be successful in the recruiting phase. Therefore, the company’s position remains the same – we will not sponsor green card applications at this time.
I am sorry about the potential challenges and frustrations this creates for you. Please contact me if you have additional questions.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 09:31 PM
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Default

The HR is absolutely right. If a US citizen is available for your job, they cannot apply for PERM. This is the basic requirement for a Green Card process. You can either change your job and go to a location in USA where your skills are in high demand and no USA Citizen is available or upgrade your skills so that no US Citizen can match a job you apply for. When unemployment is high, more US citizens will be available for the same job and PERM is not possible for many companies.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 10:06 PM
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Default

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Originally Posted by eastindia View Post
The HR is absolutely right. If a US citizen is available for your job, they cannot apply for PERM. This is the basic requirement for a Green Card process. You can either change your job and go to a location in USA where your skills are in high demand and no USA Citizen is available or upgrade your skills so that no US Citizen can match a job you apply for. When unemployment is high, more US citizens will be available for the same job and PERM is not possible for many companies.

EastIndia,

They laidoff a US citizen and took me for that position 3.5 years back. I know the basic requirement for a Green Card processing. They can't find a candidate with a skillset that I have. How do you find out where your skills are in high demand, how do you know that there wont be any US citizen , after posting ads. How many times do you need to do that. How many times you can take that risk?
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 12:16 AM
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Default It's not about finding a candidate with your skillset...

Quote:
Originally Posted by uma001 View Post
EastIndia,

They laidoff a US citizen and took me for that position 3.5 years back. I know the basic requirement for a Green Card processing. They can't find a candidate with a skillset that I have. How do you find out where your skills are in high demand, how do you know that there wont be any US citizen , after posting ads. How many times do you need to do that. How many times you can take that risk?
Uma - As long as they find a candidate who has the minimum basic skills to perform the job, they have to consider. You may have acquired additional skills than what is required...but that doesn't concern HR. Its like someone saying that they have a Masters degree and so they should qualify for filing in EB2 - but the company files in EB3 because the "job requirements" do not require a Masters degree.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 09:14 AM
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Default

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Originally Posted by uma001 View Post
EastIndia,

They laidoff a US citizen and took me for that position 3.5 years back. I know the basic requirement for a Green Card processing. They can't find a candidate with a skillset that I have. How do you find out where your skills are in high demand, how do you know that there wont be any US citizen , after posting ads. How many times do you need to do that. How many times you can take that risk?
Uma, you have helped me a lot by answering many of the questions that are pertinent to me - thank you. I also read that you are yet to apply for the green card....is this the hurdle that you are facing over and over? Smaller cities/towns may have jobs and US citizens may not be qualified to do the work there.....that is an option. However, the quality of life and schools (if you have kids) may not be that good......
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 09:53 AM
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Default

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Originally Posted by illinois_alum View Post
Uma - As long as they find a candidate who has the minimum basic skills to perform the job, they have to consider. You may have acquired additional skills than what is required...but that doesn't concern HR. Its like someone saying that they have a Masters degree and so they should qualify for filing in EB2 - but the company files in EB3 because the "job requirements" do not require a Masters degree.
They did not put all the necessary skills in the job description. For the kind of description they put, anybody can apply. Since it's a fortune 500 company, HR does noto cooperate much with me . Why should they lay off US citizen and take me and not doing green card. And that guy was earning 60% of what I am earning now. The work I am doing is not a simple work though. They did it knowingly. I posted this mail so that others could understand how fortune companies use and throw h1 guys. I am planning to move to consuting company. I cannot risk joining another american company and wait till probationary period and delay the filing. I lost the patience.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 09:54 AM
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Default

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Originally Posted by ravi98 View Post
Uma, you have helped me a lot by answering many of the questions that are pertinent to me - thank you. I also read that you are yet to apply for the green card....is this the hurdle that you are facing over and over? Smaller cities/towns may have jobs and US citizens may not be qualified to do the work there.....that is an option. However, the quality of life and schools (if you have kids) may not be that good......
Yes, I do have kid. I need to think about schooling etc.,planning to move to consulting company.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 10:01 AM
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Default you are very correct..

you are very correct, this is what the big companies do...Exploit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uma001 View Post
They did not put all the necessary skills in the job description. For the kind of description they put, anybody can apply. Since it's a fortune 500 company, HR does noto cooperate much with me . Why should they lay off US citizen and take me and not doing green card. And that guy was earning 60% of what I am earning now. The work I am doing is not a simple work though. They did it knowingly. I posted this mail so that others could understand how fortune companies use and throw h1 guys. I am planning to move to consuting company. I cannot risk joining another american company and wait till probationary period and delay the filing. I lost the patience.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by eb3retro View Post
you are very correct, this is what the big companies do...Exploit.
If you say big companies exploit, then what about consulting companies?

Uma you are better off applying in small companies in small towns where people do not want to go. You can also try in states where nobody wants to go. In bad economy it is a best bet. Few years ago when labor used to take 5 years people applied to companies in Alaska, Montana, Dakotas etc and got greencards in 1 year.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 10:43 AM
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Default

Uma,
when you decided to move to a consulting company, please take just one more step before leaving the current company.
What I understand is, Finding a suitable applicant mean, the applicant should be tested till interview level and be selected, not just receiving a resume.
If that interview didnot happend please see if that can be done, and according to you, they had a generic description of the job requirements, so obviously the prospective will fall apart and you will arise.
I know how it feels, be strong and think peacefully!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 10:47 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uma001 View Post
They did not put all the necessary skills in the job description. For the kind of description they put, anybody can apply. Since it's a fortune 500 company, HR does noto cooperate much with me . Why should they lay off US citizen and take me and not doing green card. And that guy was earning 60% of what I am earning now. The work I am doing is not a simple work though. They did it knowingly. I posted this mail so that others could understand how fortune companies use and throw h1 guys. I am planning to move to consuting company. I cannot risk joining another american company and wait till probationary period and delay the filing. I lost the patience.

I would strongly recommend leaving that company. Then they will know the pain. It seems like they are exploiting you assuming you will not leave them. I would say its your mistake for not leaving them so long especially when you have rare skills. If I were you, I would have started the GC for future employement with a consulting company and keep it as a back up.

So I would not have to lose the PD or risk the job. So when you are joining a consulting company, let them start the GC process before you join them. Atleast wait till the PERM is getting approved.

Last edited by snathan; 07-20-2010 at 10:52 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by snathan View Post
I would strongly recommend leaving that company. Then they will know the pain. It seems like they are exploiting you assuming you will not leave them. I would say its your mistake for not leaving them so long especially when you have rare skills. If I were you, I would have started the GC for future employement with a consulting company and keep it as a back up.

So I would not have to lose the PD or risk the job. So when you are joining a consulting company, let them start the GC process before you join them. Atleast wait till the PERM is getting approved.
I tried for GC for future employment with three to four companies (one with the company where my friend works as recruiter). But they said they are getting lot of audits with these kind of green cards, so they stopped doing it. Nowadays if you want to get new H1, you need to have a project and client letter in hand. To get a project, you need to have H1 . Its vice versa and it sucks.

May be my streak of bad luck continues . Don't know when it will end.
I sent an email to HR yesterday asking to return back all my documents submitted for green card.Not received any response yet.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 11:05 AM
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Default

Really feel sorry for your situation. The big companies HR/Legal does not investigate much on the laws and always try to keep things very simple, so they do not have to do more work. This could result in cases like your's identifying a US Citizen, who just qualifies based on the paper work, but in reality they might not. At the same time, given the job market condition, it is still not a surprise if they can find a match even with the unique skill set. But the law always looks what is documented. If they have hired you for the unique skills you possess, then they should be able document that and try the best. Given that Green Card processing is a long process. it is always not safe to rely on the people who do very less home work and do not fight for you. They can still get the Green card process going at the same time adhere to the laws here. Since you possess unique skills, see if you can identify other prospective employer that start the PERM based on the Skills you have. Good luck.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-20-2010, 11:21 AM
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Default

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Originally Posted by sanju_dba View Post
Uma,
when you decided to move to a consulting company, please take just one more step before leaving the current company.
What I understand is, Finding a suitable applicant mean, the applicant should be tested till interview level and be selected, not just receiving a resume.
If that interview didnot happend please see if that can be done, and according to you, they had a generic description of the job requirements, so obviously the prospective will fall apart and you will arise.
I know how it feels, be strong and think peacefully!
I agree. Just recieving applications is not sufficient they have to conduct interview or select the person. Now the problem here is since the qualifications listed are minimal in the posting the grounds of rejecting that applicant can be questioned by the labor dept who will be scutinizing the recruitment process.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:31 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanju_dba View Post
Uma,
when you decided to move to a consulting company, please take just one more step before leaving the current company.
What I understand is, Finding a suitable applicant mean, the applicant should be tested till interview level and be selected, not just receiving a resume.
If that interview didnot happend please see if that can be done, and according to you, they had a generic description of the job requirements, so obviously the prospective will fall apart and you will arise.
I know how it feels, be strong and think peacefully!
I spoke to HR long time back about this. They are not listening to me. They said Vp has selected two candidates. I tried to explain them that just selection of two candidates is not enough, they need to be interviewed, even if they are selected after technical interview, there are chances that they can be rejected in final round of interview (HR or some other). They did not agree for that. My VP told me directly that "we found the candidates". They totally put my PM outside the loop. Whenever I asked my PM about the happening he said 'Don't worry, it will be taken care'. This is health care company ranked between 400 - 420.
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