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suresh.emails 03-05-2008 11:14 AM

Transfering Social Security amount to home country Provident Fund account
 
The following questions are not related to Immigration process. However, they are very much related to each one of us.

All of us have paid a percentage of our salaries towards US Social Security. Having been worked for say about 5 years in USA and one wanted to go back to his/her home country (say India). What would happen to so far paid Social Security amount.

I have worked in India (paid Provident Fund) and Singapore (No Provident Fund /Social Security unless resident is a ‘Permanent Resident’ or Citizen) and USA (All most all residents have to pay Social Security).

In Singapore, if a person who is a ‘Permanent Resident’ and paying CPF (Common Provident Fund) would eligible to take his/her CPF back after surrendering the ‘Permanent Resident’ Card/Status.

In USA, I knew, we are eligible to receive Social Security after attaining a minimum of 40 points and one must be above 65 years. No matter, which part of the world we live, we are eligible to receive our amount provided if the Social Security is not bankrupted.

I heard that few other countries (in Europe) would transfer such Provident Fund/ Social Security amount to the respective individual home Provident Fund/ Social Security account, when the individual is returning for good. How true is this statement?

Is there such process exist in USA too? If not exist what should be done to initiate such process (transferring Social Security amount to the individual home Provident Fund/ Social Security account), when the individual is returning to home country for good.

Should there be any bilateral relations exists between countries to transfer Provident Fund/ Social Security amount.

kumar1 03-05-2008 11:54 AM

Nah!
 
There is no provision for citizen of India. If you leave before making 40 points / 10 years of work....United State govt would gladly keep your money. This is another way of telling this to you --"In God we trust"!

Make every effort to put 10 years here and then no matter where you live and what's your immigration status --you can claim your money after the age of 67. Again, if SS lasts that long!

mrdelhiite 03-05-2008 12:15 PM

question ?
 
is it 10 years of work or 10 years of work in which u paid SS tax .. what about those years on ur OPT when u pay SS tax and then get it back ( u can claim SS taxes back ) if you are in F1 status ??
-M

roseball 03-05-2008 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdelhiite (Post 228146)
is it 10 years of work or 10 years of work in which u paid SS tax .. what about those years on ur OPT when u pay SS tax and then get it back ( u can claim SS taxes back ) if you are in F1 status ??
-M

I think its 10 yrs of work where you paid SS tax.

gvenkat 03-05-2008 12:44 PM

ss and medicare are nothing but, money we flush down the drain from every pay check.. thats the hard fate..

GCplease 03-05-2008 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suresh.emails (Post 228119)
The following questions are not related to Immigration process. However, they are very much related to each one of us.

All of us have paid a percentage of our salaries towards US Social Security. Having been worked for say about 5 years in USA and one wanted to go back to his/her home country (say India). What would happen to so far paid Social Security amount.

I have worked in India (paid Provident Fund) and Singapore (No Provident Fund /Social Security unless resident is a ‘Permanent Resident’ or Citizen) and USA (All most all residents have to pay Social Security).

In Singapore, if a person who is a ‘Permanent Resident’ and paying CPF (Common Provident Fund) would eligible to take his/her CPF back after surrendering the ‘Permanent Resident’ Card/Status.

In USA, I knew, we are eligible to receive Social Security after attaining a minimum of 40 points and one must be above 65 years. No matter, which part of the world we live, we are eligible to receive our amount provided if the Social Security is not bankrupted.

I heard that few other countries (in Europe) would transfer such Provident Fund/ Social Security amount to the respective individual home Provident Fund/ Social Security account, when the individual is returning for good. How true is this statement?

Is there such process exist in USA too? If not exist what should be done to initiate such process (transferring Social Security amount to the individual home Provident Fund/ Social Security account), when the individual is returning to home country for good.

Should there be any bilateral relations exists between countries to transfer Provident Fund/ Social Security amount.


The policy of transferring SSN money to the indiviuals' homeland PF is available for some western european countries. For some reason, it is not available for India. I think this is something the Government of India and USA should discuss. Hope we could raise such issues in the Parvasi Bharathiya Divas which are being held for NRIs every year in India and request the Indian govt. to do something in this regard.

grupak 03-05-2008 02:10 PM

Filing status?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdelhiite (Post 228146)
is it 10 years of work or 10 years of work in which u paid SS tax .. what about those years on ur OPT when u pay SS tax and then get it back ( u can claim SS taxes back ) if you are in F1 status ??
-M

Good question. Not sure but could it be related to your tax filing status with IRS? Years filed under 1040-NR as a student might not count. I know students can take certain US tax exemptions due to treaties with home countries.

natrajs 03-05-2008 02:16 PM

10 Tax Years and 40 Credits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grupak (Post 228177)
Good question. Not sure but could it be related to your tax filing status with IRS? Years filed under 1040-NR as a student might not count. I know students can take certain US tax exemptions due to treaties with home countries.


10 Tax years (SS/Medicare Tax Paid) and 40 Credits is very critical to get the retirement benefits after 67 1/2 years.

During the OPT Employer/Employee don't pay the SS/Medicare taxes so you wouldn't be able to include those years.

Recently there was talk between Indian Gov and US Gov regarding to swap the SS benefits, but I think it is a distant reality

singhsa3 03-05-2008 02:38 PM

Is it 67.5 years or 62 years?
Quote:

Originally Posted by natrajs (Post 228181)
10 Tax years (SS/Medicare Tax Paid) and 40 Credits is very critical to get the retirement benefits after 67 1/2 years.

During the OPT Employer/Employee don't pay the SS/Medicare taxes so you wouldn't be able to include those years.

Recently there was talk between Indian Gov and US Gov regarding to swap the SS benefits, but I think it is a distant reality


akgind 03-05-2008 03:22 PM

SS is differnet from PF
 
I do not think SS amounts cannot be converted into PF because SS is a "Pay-as-you-go" system whereas PF is a "Fully-funded" system. The difference is important.

In a FF system your contributions are held in your own account and you are paid out of that. It is possible to identify the "balance" in your account at any time, including the return or growth of the original contributions. You get paid out of your own previous contributions.

Under a PAYGO system like SS, payments of the current retirees come out of the current contributions from workers. What we are contributing today is funding current payments and what we will get upon retirement will come from the contributions of the then working generation. There is no direct relationship beween what you pay and what you get as in FF system. All contributions go into a single pool and all payments come out of that common pool. The apparant link between individual contributions and payments is only because of the formula for determining payments prescribed under law, which can be changed anytime by the legislature - likely to happen once the inflow into the pool becomes smaller than the outflow. Hence the talk about SS bankruptcy. A FF system can never go bankrupt - you will get what you paid in.

That is why any hope of your SS "fund" being transferable is futile - whether you go from USA to Europe or to India. You do not have any "fund" in SS. You are only entitled to a future payment as per a formula that can be changed anytime by legislature.

Dubya tried to switch from PAYGO to FF form of SS, but failed.

sendmailtojk 03-05-2008 04:41 PM

SS titbits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by suresh.emails (Post 228119)
The following questions are not related to Immigration process. However, they are very much related to each one of us.

All of us have paid a percentage of our salaries towards US Social Security. Having been worked for say about 5 years in USA and one wanted to go back to his/her home country (say India). What would happen to so far paid Social Security amount.

I have worked in India (paid Provident Fund) and Singapore (No Provident Fund /Social Security unless resident is a ‘Permanent Resident’ or Citizen) and USA (All most all residents have to pay Social Security).

In Singapore, if a person who is a ‘Permanent Resident’ and paying CPF (Common Provident Fund) would eligible to take his/her CPF back after surrendering the ‘Permanent Resident’ Card/Status.

In USA, I knew, we are eligible to receive Social Security after attaining a minimum of 40 points and one must be above 65 years. No matter, which part of the world we live, we are eligible to receive our amount provided if the Social Security is not bankrupted.

I heard that few other countries (in Europe) would transfer such Provident Fund/ Social Security amount to the respective individual home Provident Fund/ Social Security account, when the individual is returning for good. How true is this statement?

Is there such process exist in USA too? If not exist what should be done to initiate such process (transferring Social Security amount to the individual home Provident Fund/ Social Security account), when the individual is returning to home country for good.

Should there be any bilateral relations exists between countries to transfer Provident Fund/ Social Security amount.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. US has a "Totalization agreement" with a number of West European countries which allows their citizens to move their SS amount into their local PF-type account. I understand they have to give some declaration that they will not come back to the US for [u]work[u].
2. SS payment - on retirement - depends on your Date of Birth.
3. You have to accumulate 40 points. 10 years of work is not an additional condition.
4. Even if you relocated to India after staying here for a couple of years, whenever you come to US and work, your stay and contribution counts. 40 points accumulation is the only end goal.
5. When you apply for SS benefits, you should be legally present in the US.
6. Depending on your DOB, you can start getting reduced-benefits (roughly 75% of full benefit) SS couple of years before your ACTUAL retirement.

Thanks:cool:

akgind 03-05-2008 05:38 PM

Totalization Agreements do not mean transfer of SS amounts
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sendmailtojk (Post 228241)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. US has a "Totalization agreement" with a number of West European countries which allows their citizens to move their SS amount into their local PF-type account. I understand they have to give some declaration that they will not come back to the US for [u]work[u].
Thanks:cool:

Details of the Totalization Agreements are on the SSA web site:

http://www.ssa.gov/international/agr..._overview.html

These agreements do not provide for transfer of any SS amount to another country. They merely allow an individual to qualify for SS benefits in US based on 10 years of contributions in the two countries combined, and proportionate payment of monthly SS benefits by US in such cases. Also, they avoid dual contributions in case a working individual is covered by both countries' SS taxes.

subba 03-05-2008 05:48 PM

Please note that the no.of credits you accrue (max of 4 per year, minimum of 40 required) also determines how much your SS retirement benefits are.
I am not quite sure how the benefit "scales" with credits. Maybe someone more knowledgable can comment.


Quote:

Originally Posted by roseball (Post 228149)
I think its 10 yrs of work where you paid SS tax.


485Mbe4001 03-05-2008 06:09 PM

Who knew that putting 'exempt' as an RA in college would come back to haunt me :) . Everything extracts its price in the end


Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdelhiite (Post 228146)
is it 10 years of work or 10 years of work in which u paid SS tax .. what about those years on ur OPT when u pay SS tax and then get it back ( u can claim SS taxes back ) if you are in F1 status ??
-M


natrajs 03-05-2008 06:39 PM

67 Years
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by singhsa3 (Post 228195)
Is it 67.5 years or 62 years?

Those born after 1960 - 67 Years is the retirement Age

http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/agereduction.htm


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