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  #4816 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by padmaforopt View Post
So 1000 visas to pakistan and 2800 to India and china is looking fair to you .

So India and china should wait till 170 countries get '2800 visas/country/year.'

what is this 7% limit for India & Chinese ( which are highly populated & developing countries).

EB visas are for future JObs .
So you say a job offered to Indain (or) chinese should be available for decades, while jobs offered for 'other country residents (or) who has a spouse from other country' should be available for less than decade?

Not fair @ all and it impacts India the most, China is moving steadily --> the author is just trying to make the point that the system of allocation is completely screwed up.
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  #4817 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padmaforopt View Post
So 1000 visas to pakistan and 2800 to India and china is looking fair to you .

So India and china should wait till 170 countries get '2800 visas/country/year.'

what is this 7% limit for India & Chinese ( which are highly populated & developing countries).

EB visas are for future JObs .
So you say a job offered to Indain (or) chinese should be available for decades, while jobs offered for 'other country residents (or) who has a spouse from other country' should be available for less than decade?
buddy - u r raising very very good points - but these are reasons exactly why hr 3012 is taken up and won by absolute majority in house. unfortunately, life is unfair at times and it may be like that for several reasons. Even though we know HR 3012 is a completely fair and light(est) bill, its up to the Almighty to help us make it through Senate and bring everyone much needed relief. May God help us in this pursuit of fairness for high skilled immigrants.
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  #4818 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:04 PM
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Default Let us focus on action items

Best we can do is to keep spreading the word on HR3012 -- doing that work is the only way available to us, rest we have to leave on allmighty
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  #4819 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by padmaforopt View Post
So 1000 visas to pakistan and 2800 to India and china is looking fair to you .

So India and china should wait till 170 countries get '2800 visas/country/year.'

what is this 7% limit for India & Chinese ( which are highly populated & developing countries).

EB visas are for future JObs .
So you say a job offered to Indain (or) chinese should be available for decades, while jobs offered for 'other country residents (or) who has a spouse from other country' should be available for less than decade?
Nothing is fair.

Do you think it is fair for Non-IT background to wait in line for years within EB2-I / EB3-I?

Do you think it is fair to bachelors when spouses & children are included within EB quota?

The list can be never ending. If you are desperate to live in this country, just keep praying for your number!
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  #4820 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by iyer View Post
Nothing is fair.

Do you think it is fair for Non-IT background to wait in line for years within EB2-I / EB3-I?

Do you think it is fair to bachelors when spouses & children are included within EB quota?

The list can be never ending. If you are desperate to live in this country, just keep praying for your number!
Don't forget those who have a Masters degree from here and are in the same line with everyone else. HR3012 is the only way out of this unfair system - it does not discriminate with respect to anything - The ideal would be to have a pure FIFO system but HR3012 is a close second
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  #4821 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iyer View Post
Nothing is fair.

Do you think it is fair for Non-IT background to wait in line for years within EB2-I / EB3-I?

Do you think it is fair to bachelors when spouses & children are included within EB quota?

The list can be never ending. If you are desperate to live in this country, just keep praying for your number!
Right on money. Also, I personally know a good friend with Masters, MBA from top schools and 10+ years experience (one more person - yours truly) but stuck in this mess and cannot port because priority date is 2003/4 and also other constraints.
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  #4822 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2012, 11:02 PM
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I don't think EB3-I will get spillover for another 10+ years because EB3-ROW PD is 2006. How can they allocate only 2,800 visas?
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  #4823 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappu_Pager View Post
Unfortunately, the picture is quite different. H.R. 3012 and many other Immigration reforms are the ONLY answers. Look at the statistics and history than believing on some news.

Here is the history:

June 2007
EB2 I - 01 APR 2004


July 2007
EB2 I - Current


This is what July 2007 Bulletin said about future movement--

All Employment Preference categories except for Third “Other Workers” have been made “Current” for July. This has been done in an effort to generate increased demand by Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) for adjustment of status cases, and to maximize number use under the annual numerical limit. However, all readers should be alert to the possibility that not all Employment preferences will remain Current for the remainder of the fiscal year. Should the rate of demand for numbers be very heavy in the coming months, it could become necessary to retrogress some cut-off dates for September, most likely for China-mainland born and India, but also possibly for Mexico and Philippines. Severe cut-off date retrogressions are likely to occur early in FY-2008.

August 2007
EB2 I - Unavailable
(EB 2 was unavailable for all countries. Even EB1 was unavailable for all countries.)

Visa Bulletin said, all numbers got utilized so ....( How can EB1 becomes unavailable, if mass filing is done in EB2 not in EB1 !!!. It tells great story about how people operate in USCIS building. They might have seen pile - more than 60,000 - of applications, and they would have assumed its mix of everything so they had even EB1 unavailable. This clearly tells its highly inaccurate counting system they have. It might be stone-age counting system they are using)

September 2007
EB2 I - back to 01 Apr 2004 !!



July 2008
EB2 I - 01 Apr 2004
(He He ... 1 year .. no change !! )

July 2009
EB2 I - 01 Jan 2000
(yes 2000 !! - back dated ... as they said, in July 2007 bulletin, they severely retrogatted the dates. They kept their words, at least, somewhere )

July 2010
EB2 I - 01 OCT 2005


July 2011
EB2 I - 08 Mar 2007


July 2012
EB2 I
- Severely Retrogatted ??



So, history tells a lot, about how they operate, how their calculations operate and how their mind works .... They have NO clue on demand (or atleast they show that way ), and they have NO clue on when to open the dates.

People who got current in 2010 or 2009 .. I guess, the joy is temporary .. Soon there will many who will be stuck with EADs, only 2 industries will get financial gain (1) Lawyers who help transferring on EAD etc (2) USCIS who got I-485 application fees + USCIS who will get application fee for EAD transfer etc.

That doesn't mean that it is not time for celebration for people who got current, it's just -- it is also moment not to ignore the realities / numbers and not to ignore support for HR 3012 ... I am EB-2, so not biasing it from EB-3 perspective ...


Cheers,
I doubt they don;t have numbers. They have all the numbers only thing being that they have power to play around with them....
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  #4824 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suva View Post
Teddy, prior to AC21 these spillover visas were getting wasted year after year. If your logic "numbers would never be unused they would first go to satiate every country till 7%" is true then the spillover visas would have been used by USCIS prior to AC21 (year 2000) as many countries in EB3-ROW could not reach 7% limit after 40000 visas are used for each category in EB1/EB2/Eb3. In this respect AC21 allowed USCIS to use these spillover visas to be used to over subscribed countries irrespective of 7% limit. Only rule to follow is EB1-EB2-EB3. I have checked your visa bulletin August 2010 link and did not find any place to contradict this theory. Overall my point is that USCIS is interpreting it wrongly and that wrong interpretation might get reflected in their visa bulletin.

Thanks
Isn't there a reference to the last in queue being treated first for spill over cases?
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  #4825 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:38 AM
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Other forums are reporting that Spillover change since 2007 screwed up EB3-I movement. We will know exactly this month the fate of EB3-I. BTW, I am doing Masters even though my attorney told me not to do - they can't upgrade. God Bless America!
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  #4826 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Suva View Post
Pre 2000 there was backlog for EB3-India & EB3-China though it was not like what we have today. In addition to spillover visas AC21 in 2000 allowed another 130,000 lost visas from 1990 to 2000 to be used to clear the backlog and 7% limit was also excluded from these lost visas. This worked from 2000 to 2004 and there was no backlog during this period. After this 130,000 visas got exhausted this current backlog got started building up over the years.

Yes I would check postings by gcperm & sangiano.

Thanks
What are your thoughts and interpretations based on the link for INA 202. AC21 act just amended INA 202 that is still the guideline. The interpretation has always been disputed though, all that changed in 2007 was that it was interpreted in the favour of EB2 I/C as opposed to EB3 ROW.
INA: ACT 202 - NUMERICAL LIMITATION TO ANY SINGLE FOREIGN STATE
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  #4827 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chikna View Post
Other forums are reporting that Spillover change since 2007 screwed up EB3-I movement. We will know exactly this month the fate of EB3-I. BTW, I am doing Masters even though my attorney told me not to do - they can't upgrade. God Bless America!
Read the following version - http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/3133017-post4807.html.
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  #4828 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:49 AM
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Chikna, do you think for one day other than EB3-I?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chikna View Post
Other forums are reporting that Spillover change since 2007 screwed up EB3-I movement. We will know exactly this month the fate of EB3-I. BTW, I am doing Masters even though my attorney told me not to do - they can't upgrade. God Bless America!
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  #4829 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 11:33 AM
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Default Can you please shed some light?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pappu View Post
We are trying to further suggest pushing eb2 dates .
Pappu,

Without getting into any details that can't be gotten into or shared publicly, can you please clarify for the benefit of all what among these 3 is causing this movement. I ask this because I and probably many others are totally dumbfounded by the movement as it goes against all the basis of the predictions / calculations.

A) There was actually low demand in 2008 and 2009. The generally used basis for calculating demand has been PERM applications data from DOL with applied family multiplication factor (0.6 or whatever). If there was actually low demand in 2008 and 2009, then the basis for our calculations was incorrect - meaning that the approved PERMS didn't translate to 140s or beyond.

B) The demand was there. It's just that the cases filed after the movement in recent bulletins hasn't hit the DOS end from USCIS. Meaning there is a 3-4 month lag in the demand being reflected at DOS and hence we are getting the dose of kindness from DOS. We all know now that this is in large part due to IV's effort in educating the decision makers with hardcore calculations. So Thank you to you and IV!

C) The demand was there. It's just that there wasn't enough 'documentarily qualified' demand and hence the lag in USCIS requesting numbers from DOS and hence the movement. Maybe C) is the same as B) but I don't know what 'documentarily qualified' means and hence listing it here.

Hoping for your reply.
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  #4830 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdeeds View Post
Pappu,

Without getting into any details that can't be gotten into or shared publicly, can you please clarify for the benefit of all what among these 3 is causing this movement. I ask this because I and probably many others are totally dumbfounded by the movement as it goes against all the basis of the predictions / calculations.

A) There was actually low demand in 2008 and 2009. The generally used basis for calculating demand has been PERM applications data from DOL with applied family multiplication factor (0.6 or whatever). If there was actually low demand in 2008 and 2009, then the basis for our calculations was incorrect - meaning that the approved PERMS didn't translate to 140s or beyond.

B) The demand was there. It's just that the cases filed after the movement in recent bulletins hasn't hit the DOS end from USCIS. Meaning there is a 3-4 month lag in the demand being reflected at DOS and hence we are getting the dose of kindness from DOS. We all know now that this is in large part due to IV's effort in educating the decision makers with hardcore calculations. So Thank you to you and IV!

C) The demand was there. It's just that there wasn't enough 'documentarily qualified' demand and hence the lag in USCIS requesting numbers from DOS and hence the movement. Maybe C) is the same as B) but I don't know what 'documentarily qualified' means and hence listing it here.

Hoping for your reply.
Very good post. If we can get qualified response to this (and not mere guesswork from ppl out there), it would bring a lot of clarity upon what to expect in future. Everyone welcomes this rapid movement but a logical explanation beyond simply stating "agencies discretion" is required.
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