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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 08:37 AM
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Post Change as you please

Nothing to worry, go ahead and change jobs. Don't waste your money consulting with a lawyer on this.

Good Luck with your job search.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano View Post
Hi!

My employer has changed the conditions of my employment after we mutually agreed to start the greencard process (reduced benefits, increased my out-of-pocket expenses, did not give yearly increase and bonuses promised at the beginning of my employment). I am now unable to make ends meet with my current salary and there is no sign I will get an increase soon. Will this constitute as valid reason if I quit my job in, say, 1 month from receiving the greencard?

Also, the Senior position specified in the I-140 is not available right now. Do I have the right to claim it, now that the greencard had been approved? If they won't give it to me, will this be a valid reason to quit and not jeopardize my GC with the USCIS?

Please advise. Thank you!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 10:51 AM
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Default Big trouble

Right after getting greencard if you change your job and someone complains you can be in a lot of trouble. E.G. they can cancel your greencard and bar you from the US for 10 years on the basis of fraud. Now if no one complains and nothing USCIS doesn't know its a different story. I have seen people do that and gotten away with it until they reach their citizenship step. In one of the forms you have to mention all your jobs you have held for the past 5 years now if your petitioning company isn't there alot of questions can be raised.

To avoid all this trouble stick with the guy for couple of more moths and you will be in much better shape. my two cents
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 12:20 PM
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Default What's the use of AC21

Hi:

I agree with you in principle.

But I belive, what you said is a "Age-Old" Norm. If this still persits, how can they justifiy "AC21' and Yates Memo. and What happens, if your sponsoring company fires you, or creates an uneasy situation to continue, in this slowing economy.

Nothing wrong consulting an attorney and obtain reasonble justification to change job.

My 2 cents-- I am not a lawyer though..

thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by I_need_GC View Post
Right after getting greencard if you change your job and someone complains you can be in a lot of trouble. E.G. they can cancel your greencard and bar you from the US for 10 years on the basis of fraud. Now if no one complains and nothing USCIS doesn't know its a different story. I have seen people do that and gotten away with it until they reach their citizenship step. In one of the forms you have to mention all your jobs you have held for the past 5 years now if your petitioning company isn't there alot of questions can be raised.

To avoid all this trouble stick with the guy for couple of more moths and you will be in much better shape. my two cents
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 12:26 PM
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Post Why live in fear in a free country?

Why live in fear in a free country?

Change job and enjoy the freedom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HOPE_GC_SOON View Post
Hi:

I agree with you in principle.

But I belive, what you said is a "Age-Old" Norm. If this still persits, how can they justifiy "AC21' and Yates Memo. and What happens, if your sponsoring company fires you, or creates an uneasy situation to continue, in this slowing economy.

Nothing wrong consulting an attorney and obtain reasonble justification to change job.

My 2 cents-- I am not a lawyer though..

thanks
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 12:45 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_need_GC View Post
Right after getting greencard if you change your job and someone complains you can be in a lot of trouble. E.G. they can cancel your greencard and bar you from the US for 10 years on the basis of fraud. Now if no one complains and nothing USCIS doesn't know its a different story. I have seen people do that and gotten away with it until they reach their citizenship step. In one of the forms you have to mention all your jobs you have held for the past 5 years now if your petitioning company isn't there alot of questions can be raised.

To avoid all this trouble stick with the guy for couple of more moths and you will be in much better shape. my two cents
How does 2 months make a difference? Who decided this number of 2 months or 6 months?

With the AC21 act, one's green card application is protected even if one changes jobs before getting a green card. How is changing jobs after a green card, worse off than this?

To the OP,

If it is 180 days after you filed 485 if your 140 is approved, you are free to quit your employer. Under your circumstances of shortage of income, there is no good reason not to move on. GC approval does not take away this freedom.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersose View Post
How does 2 months make a difference? Who decided this number of 2 months or 6 months?

With the AC21 act, one's green card application is protected even if one changes jobs before getting a green card. How is changing jobs after a green card, worse off than this?

To the OP,

If it is 180 days after you filed 485 if your 140 is approved, you are free to quit your employer. Under your circumstances of shortage of income, there is no good reason not to move on. GC approval does not take away this freedom.
This question has been discussed in another thread. Here is the repost.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/sh...689#post266689

I think 180 day rule applies to take benefit of AC-21 portability. Since green card is for "future job" you still need to have a "same or similar" job offer at the time of approval of green card. After the green card approval you are supposed to work with the sponsoring employer for a reasonable period of time to show that you always had the intent to work with the sponsoring employer. Following is from Murthy:
http://www.murthy.com/pr_thngs.html

"It is also important to understand that the green card approval will be reviewed at the time of the naturalization interview. For employment-based cases, this means inquiries into how long the individual worked for the employer after obtaining the green card. If the period is extremely short, there may be questions about the bona fide nature of the green card process. The same is true of marriage-based green cards. If the couple is no longer married, there will be questions about the duration of the marriage and the reason for the break-up. While there is no set amount of time that one must continue to work for the sponsoring employer, many lawyers believe that one year is a safe timeframe and that six months is the minimum period. For shorter timeframes, there must be a satisfactory explanation for the departure. Some explanations may be considered completely plausible while others are not. These issues should be explored with an attorney prior to the interview."
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default

Both the employer and employee should have the intent of working together after GC. However, for several reasons, this may not come to pass, in which case it is OK to change.

Since no minimum timeframe is specified by law, it may be OK to change jobs in 24 hours after GC approval.

Questions may popup during naturalization, but the same questions apply to people who quit 1,2.3 4 years after GC too. So there is no difference as the answers to these questions are the same for all cases - 24 hrs or 4 years.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 01:10 PM
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Default AC21/ working for current employer

I found this very interesting article by an attorney on this subject matter.


http://www.michaelpiston.net/documen...20approved.pdf
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 02:07 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by I_need_GC View Post
I found this very interesting article by an attorney on this subject matter.


http://www.michaelpiston.net/documen...20approved.pdf
The link does not work.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 02:58 PM
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karthkc is on a distinguished road
Default True enough..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaisersose View Post
Both the employer and employee should have the intent of working together after GC. However, for several reasons, this may not come to pass, in which case it is OK to change.

Since no minimum timeframe is specified by law, it may be OK to change jobs in 24 hours after GC approval.

Questions may popup during naturalization, but the same questions apply to people who quit 1,2.3 4 years after GC too. So there is no difference as the answers to these questions are the same for all cases - 24 hrs or 4 years.
Check this thread out for more real-life equivalences on this..

http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=1933677
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:04 PM
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sanjaymk will become famous soon enough
Default Consult a good attorney

Quote:
"It is also important to understand that the green card approval will be reviewed at the time of the naturalization interview. For employment-based cases, this means inquiries into how long the individual worked for the employer after obtaining the green card. If the period is extremely short, there may be questions about the bona fide nature of the green card process. The same is true of marriage-based green cards. If the couple is no longer married, there will be questions about the duration of the marriage and the reason for the break-up. While there is no set amount of time that one must continue to work for the sponsoring employer, many lawyers believe that one year is a safe timeframe and that six months is the minimum period. For shorter timeframes, there must be a satisfactory explanation for the departure. Some explanations may be considered completely plausible while others are not. These issues should be explored with an attorney prior to the interview."
Good Post.

My 2 cents..

I consulted my attorney(works at shiela murthy law firm) after getting my green card and she specifically mentioned 6 mos. to 1 year.

But, considering the AC21 and other aspects, I think you can argue your reason to leave, if you change to a similar job position after getting your greencard.

But just to be safe, consult a good attorney who knows what they are talking about. You could get advise from a very good attorney for $100, it is a good chunk of money but it is worth it, considering the risks and other consequences.

All the best.

Sanjay.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 04:14 PM
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Default link location

sorry give this a try

[http://www.michaelpiston.net/documents/m/changing employer after I-485 is approved.pdf]

copy and paste the link above with out brackets
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:14 PM
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Default

Hi guys,
I dont want to duplications, but I think following "cut and paste" from my previous post may be a fair thing to do; just for the information.

I am not a lawyer; but this is what I believe to the best of my knowledge:

1. If you never used AC21 (still working with the employer who sponsored I 140); your obligation at the time of GC approval is to have a "good faith intention to work with the same employer permanently". It is not clear in the law as to how would you prove that intention...most people say that you should work for some duration (6 months or 12 months at least...or something like that) after GC is approved to "show" your good faith intention.

2. If you ported to employer B using AC 21 (before the approval of GC); you have the same obligation to the new employer B and NO obligation to original I 140 sponsoring employer. (this is especially true if you informed USCIS of your porting and also true if you did not inform USCIS but law is less clear in the later scenario)

There is really no law that specifies the duration.

All it says is :"you should have intention to work for the GC sponsoring employer (or AC21 employer if you ported) permanently."

Intention is a state of mind and it can change!! also all these employments are at will, and so it is possible that you may not like that job! Or on the other hand employer may not like you and fire you in a week.

Bottomline: You will be fine under most circumstances. However, if the issue is raised at the time of naturalization, it would be much easier for you to explain/show that you did have intention to work for the employer if you actually work for the sponsoring employer for some duration (6 months, 1 year...all these are arbitrary numbers).

If you never worked for the sponsoring employer, you may not have a lot of grounds to show that entire GC was not a fraud...

Again, there is no clear law on this...


followup post:

I think there is a mix up here between two things:

180 day clock does start on the first day after filing 485, but that is for the purpose of AC21. Once you use AC21, then the next employer assumes the role of "your future permanent employer" and you should have "intent to permanently work for that(new, not the sponsoring) employer" AT the time of GC approval.

If you use change the employers 7 times using AC21 before your GC gets approved; you should have "intent to work permanently for the latest employer".

You are not bonded slaves. The only issue is that the "burden of proof" of proving the intent to work for such and such employer is on the GC beneficiary and not on USCIS. So in future, if USCIS questions (or CBP questions), it is YOU who has to prove that intent.

One scenario where you WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PROVE IT: if you never worked for the sponsoring employer.

One scenario where you WILL NOT HAVE A PROBLEM PROVING IT: if you worked with sponsoring (or latest AC21) employer after GC approval for some duration (60 days?? 90 days?? 6 months?? 1 year??)...no law on this.

This is the whole purpose of Labor Certification process and I140. And it applies to the categories of EB2 (except NIW) and EB3--any category that requires LC.


This is from my discussion in following thread:

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=20403 (What is the law for after you get the GC)

I just put it here so that everyone would not have to try the link and may be this information is useful to someone.

Good Luck.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karthkc View Post
Check this thread out for more real-life equivalences on this..

http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=1933677
Let me put it this way,

I am in a better position if I quit 1 day after GC approval to move to a job in my line of work than if I quit 1 year later and move to a different line like starting a grocery store or restaurant. If changing jobs is an issue at naturalization (we have no evidence of that), then the former case has better credibility than the latter - though I waited longer.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 12:35 AM
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mariano can only hope to improve
Default Employer not offering Senior position until middle of next year ...

Thank you all for your posts. It is really helping me think through this issue.

I spoke to my sponsoring manager (Director of IT) and he said the following:

i) the Senior position is not available yet, and only in early next year would he be able to discuss it with senior management.

ii) he is not aware that the position specified in the I-140 need to be offered as soon as GC is granted (nobody expected the GC to be approved so quickly in my case)

iii) he still wants to see "more improvements" in my skills before I could potentially be promoted to the Senior position

iv) he will make me sign a document saying I will pay for the entire cost of the GC process if I leave (he did not yet specify a time frame for this).

Does anyone have any comments on the above statements? Do any of them jeopardize my GC in any way? Aren't they STRONG reasons (i..e, acceptable to USCIS) to start looking for a job elsewhere?

What I'm realizing from our conversation is that I'm stuck with my salary and position for at least another year. This is going to put me and my family in a difficult times, which I'm trying to ask him to help me with.

I appreciate your response. Thank you.
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