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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2005, 08:17 PM
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Default Immigration in Canada, Aus., UK etc Vs USA All ques and discussions

US news has covered a book by David Heenan -- "Flight Capital" that essentially deals with the fact that high powered immigrants are leaving this country -- for whatever reason -- and how its bad for America. BAD FOR AMERICA. forget about it being bad of GC aspirants. ITS BAD FOR AMERICA. And we have one of america's own high powered former CEO saying that

http://www.flight-capital.com/

This man has no vested interested in talking about this. Obviously he does not need a GC and he is not on H1. He makes our case. How anti-immigration congressional measure are hurting America as a nation as much as it hurts aspiring immigrants.

This is an independent non-partisan source who can be quoted in our cause.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2005, 08:22 PM
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Very good find logiclife. Hope we can get such good points across to our legislators.
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Old 12-31-2005, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
US news has covered a book by David Heenan -- "Flight Capital" that essentially deals with the fact that high powered immigrants are leaving this country -- for whatever reason -- and how its bad for America. BAD FOR AMERICA. forget about it being bad of GC aspirants. ITS BAD FOR AMERICA. And we have one of america's own high powered former CEO saying that

http://www.flight-capital.com/

This man has no vested interested in talking about this. Obviously he does not need a GC and he is not on H1. He makes our case. How anti-immigration congressional measure are hurting America as a nation as much as it hurts aspiring immigrants.

This is an independent non-partisan source who can be quoted in our cause.

logic,

Is there a way you can find out some contact info of the writer? maybe we can ask his help
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Old 01-01-2006, 02:08 AM
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Default Contact Info of David Heenan

Here is the contact info of this author.

http://www.flight-capital.com/contact.html

His email is dh@flight-capital.com. The phone numbers are for his sales office of his book. I came to know about this guy from cable news show, I guess it was MSNBC, cant be sure.

I have already written a letter to this guy asking for help/suggestions. I will send a copy of that email to you too.

This man is legit. I found something more on this guy:

This is from : http://www.redherring.com/Article.as...ersAndPundits#

In Flight Capital, Mr. Heenan says that 1,000 people a day leave the U.S. to return to their home countries. While few countries monitor the quantity and quality of talent that has exited and returned, he says these are the talented people who help drive the pace of innovation in tech centers like California’s Silicon Valley. “In the global war for top talent, our competitors aren’t taking prisoners,” he writes.In his travels and research, Mr. Heenan interviewed repatriates in eight countries, including Ireland, Iceland, India, Singapore, China, Taiwan, Israel, and Mexico. Eight of the 11 Americans who shared Nobel prizes in physics and chemistry in the past three years were born elsewhere, and nearly 40 percent of Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduate students are from abroad, notes Mr. Heenan, who has taught at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School and Columbia University.
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Old 02-01-2006, 03:34 PM
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Default Another good articles

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
US news has covered a book by David Heenan -- "Flight Capital" that essentially deals with the fact that high powered immigrants are leaving this country -- for whatever reason -- and how its bad for America. BAD FOR AMERICA. forget about it being bad of GC aspirants. ITS BAD FOR AMERICA. And we have one of america's own high powered former CEO saying that

http://www.flight-capital.com/

This man has no vested interested in talking about this. Obviously he does not need a GC and he is not on H1. He makes our case. How anti-immigration congressional measure are hurting America as a nation as much as it hurts aspiring immigrants.

This is an independent non-partisan source who can be quoted in our cause.
http://www.greatandhra.com/business/greencard_usa.html

and there is another good article with the same topic.

Check out this article in the Wall Street Journal - by Gary Becker, a Nobel Price Winner..alas this administration in immune to such logic

Give Us Your Skilled Masses

By GARY S. BECKER
November 30, 2005; Page A18

With border security and proposals for a guest-worker program back on the front page, it is vital that the U.S. -- in its effort to cope with undocumented workers -- does not overlook legal immigration. The number of people allowed in is far too small, posing a significant problem for the economy in the years ahead. Only 140,000 green cards are issued annually, with the result that scientists, engineers and other highly skilled workers often must wait years before receiving the ticket allowing them to stay permanently in the U.S.

An alternate route for highly skilled professionals -- especially information technology workers -- has been temporary H-1B visas, good for specific jobs for three years with the possibility of one renewal. But Congress foolishly cut the annual quota of H-1B visas in 2003 from almost 200,000 to well under 100,000. The small quota of 65,000 for the current fiscal year that began on Oct. 1 is already exhausted!

This is mistaken policy. The right approach would be to greatly increase the number of entry permits to highly skilled professionals and eliminate the H-1B program, so that all such visas became permanent. Skilled immigrants such as engineers and scientists are in fields not attracting many Americans, and they work in IT industries, such as computers and biotech, which have become the backbone of the economy. Many of the entrepreneurs and higher-level employees in Silicon Valley were born overseas. These immigrants create jobs and opportunities for native-born Americans of all types and levels of skills.

So it seems like a win-win situation. Permanent rather than temporary admissions of the H-1B type have many advantages. Foreign professionals would make a greater commitment to becoming part of American culture and to eventually becoming citizens, rather than forming separate enclaves in the expectation they are here only temporarily. They would also be more concerned with advancing in the American economy and less likely to abscond with the intellectual property of American companies -- property that could help them advance in their countries of origin.

Basically, I am proposing that H-1B visas be folded into a much larger, employment-based green card program with the emphasis on skilled workers. The annual quota should be multiplied many times beyond present limits, and there should be no upper bound on the numbers from any single country. Such upper bounds place large countries like India and China, with many highly qualified professionals, at a considerable and unfair disadvantage -- at no gain to the U.S.

* * *
To be sure, the annual admission of a million or more highly skilled workers such as engineers and scientists would lower the earnings of the American workers they compete against. The opposition from competing American workers is probably the main reason for the sharp restrictions on the number of immigrant workers admitted today. That opposition is understandable, but does not make it good for the country as a whole.

Doesn't the U.S. clearly benefit if, for example, India's government spends a lot on the highly esteemed Indian Institutes of Technology to train scientists and engineers who leave to work in America? It certainly appears that way to the sending countries, many of which protest against this emigration by calling it a "brain drain."

Yet the migration of workers, like free trade in goods, is not a zero sum game, but one that usually benefits the sending and the receiving country. Even if many immigrants do not return home to the nations that trained them, they send back remittances that are often sizeable; and some do return to start businesses.

Experience shows that countries providing a good economic and political environment can attract back many of the skilled men and women who have previously left. Whether they return or not, they gain knowledge about modern technologies that becomes more easily incorporated into the production of their native countries.

Experience also shows that if America does not accept greatly increased numbers of highly skilled professionals, they might go elsewhere: Canada and Australia, to take two examples, are actively recruiting IT professionals.

Since earnings are much higher in the U.S., many skilled immigrants would prefer to come here. But if they cannot, they may compete against us through outsourcing and similar forms of international trade in services. The U.S. would be much better off by having such skilled workers become residents and citizens -- thus contributing to our productivity, culture, tax revenues and education rather than to the productivity and tax revenues of other countries.

* * *
I do, however, advocate that we be careful about admitting students and skilled workers from countries that have produced many terrorists, such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. My attitude may be dismissed as religious "profiling," but intelligent and fact-based profiling is essential in the war against terror. And terrorists come from a relatively small number of countries and backgrounds, unfortunately mainly of the Islamic faith. But the legitimate concern about admitting terrorists should not be allowed, as it is now doing, to deny or discourage the admission of skilled immigrants who pose little terrorist threat.

Nothing in my discussion should be interpreted as arguing against the admission of unskilled immigrants. Many of these individuals also turn out to be ambitious and hard-working and make fine contributions to American life. But if the number to be admitted is subject to political and other limits, there is a strong case for giving preference to skilled immigrants for the reasons I have indicated.

Other countries, too, should liberalize their policies toward the immigration of skilled workers. I particularly think of Japan and Germany, both countries that have rapidly aging, and soon to be declining, populations that are not sympathetic (especially Japan) to absorbing many immigrants. These are decisions they have to make. But America still has a major advantage in attracting skilled workers, because this is the preferred destination of the vast majority of them. So why not take advantage of their preference to come here, rather than force them to look elsewhere?

Mr. Becker, the 1992 Nobel laureate in economics, is University Professor of Economics and Sociology at the University of Chicago and the Rose-Marie and Jack R. Anderson Senior Fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 05:13 PM
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Default Immigration in Canada, Aus. Vs USA

There is a lot of debate going on here, about how Canada and Australia have a better immigration system because they are points-based self-petition systems compared to employer-petition system here in US.

I believe the employer-petition system is still the best system to implement for immigration. Its complicated, long and provides breeding ground for exploitation. But that is the ONLY way to ensure that the workforce is not oversupplied with labor and the immigrants who can gather points actually have the ability to get jobs.(look at Canada where Ph.Ds who aced the points sytem are inept in real world and drive taxicabs and blame the Canadian Government).

If I score 100 points out of required 50 or 60 points for Canada, its all meaningless if I am inept and cannot get a job. However, I would contribute to my own well-being and to the workforce and economy if I can find a job and an employer willing to petition, even if I score 25 points out of required 50 or 60.

US has the best immigration system and I believe the employer petition is the best method for adjudication. However, it has its problems in terms of delays due to bureaucratic inefficiencies and inadequate annual quotas. If Australia, France, Germany are going to adopt the Canadian model of points-based system, its not goint to help them or the ones who go there.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 05:47 PM
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Other countries donot have large enough economies to absorb as many immigrants as the US does...The US accepts 800K + immigrants every year..
Austrelia accepts 120K+ canada 220k+ Nobody matches the US in sheer numbers and standard of living immigrant can achieve. All the rest is baloney...
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 05:52 PM
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I partly agree with you. But Employer petition is not the right answer to points based system. A fair way would be to keep employer based system of H1B (with portability) as an entry point in the country and criteria to stay. But allow self petition after say X years (4 maybe) of continuous employment at wages higher than prevailing wages and in your area of expertise. In that case Labor cert can also be eliminated because if you have continuous employment for 4 years, the business definitely needs you.

So the process can be:
May 2006: Come here on H1B
May 2006 - May 2010: Work at wages greater than prevailing wage may be 10% higher
June 2010 - Submit your W2s, paystubs, Tax returns, Application for Green card
July 2010 - Get green card and enjoy

Last edited by amoljak; 05-10-2006 at 05:55 PM.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 05:53 PM
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Default New Tune

Why is this is a New Tune being sung suddenly? I mean i can see your point, but why this sudden introduction. So far IV was showing the lawmakers how good the Canadian/Australian system was. Now one of the super moderators is mentioning that despite all the exploitation the US system is better?

Pls dont get me wrong i am not making snide remarks. Just wondering if this was a personal thought or that is now going to be IV's policy.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:03 PM
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even if labor market tests are the right way to go, there is no justification for the enormous bureacracy involved in the US EB system. Consider the time it takes to clear labor certification .. 4-6 months under PERM.Then why another 4-6 years after that to issue the green card ? If the person has already proven he is in a speciality occupation, why the additional bureacracy, and retrogression in the name of "diversity" ? Current policy just smacks of ambivalence.. immigrants are needed for the economy, yet the rules dont acknowledge their utility by offering a painless path to permanent residency.

Last edited by dixie; 05-10-2006 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 05-10-2006, 06:04 PM
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Default IV's goals

I am talking from a broad perspective, not IV's goals.

IV never had a goal of asking for a points-based canadian model of EB immigration or asking for self-petition system where EB applicants apply for greencards independent of employer. Even if we want and ask for it, it would never happen - for the very reasons I mentioned above. Firstly it would oversupply the workforce with people who may or may not fill jobs and secondly the protection of native-born cannot be achieved without employer-petition that involved labor cert.

So politically, its almost impossible to get rid of employer-petition for all EB applicants. Maybe STEM/PH.D etc candidates will get a shot at such a provision in near future, but not everyone.

And like I said, the current system has its problems but point-based self petition is not the answer. And we are not singing a new tune. We are working hard beyond our capacities to get the same amendments introduced again that were introduced on April 7th by Senators Brownback, Alexander and Bingaman.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclife
There is a lot of debate going on here, about how Canada and Australia have a better immigration system because they are points-based self-petition systems compared to employer-petition system here in US.

....
If I score 100 points out of required 50 or 60 points for Canada, its all meaningless if I am inept and cannot get a job. However, I would contribute to my own well-being and to the workforce and economy if I can find a job and an employer willing to petition, even if I score 25 points out of required 50 or 60.
You are missing a point here though...having gone through the Canadian point system myself back in the late 90s, the Canadian point system gives you added points for having current employment in your intended occupation.

When you don't have employment, you lose those points, and have to rely on other aspects of your profile to compensate for that..it is another story that their point system is lax enough to qualify most MS and PhD people even when they don't have current employment.

Ph.Ds driving cabs in Canada is the same as immigrant doctors working as nurses or lab technicians in the US.

I will disagree with you. Employer sponsored path to permenant residency is certainly not the best. Firstly, if the average time to process an application is 5-7 years, expecting a person to shackled in the same job for that long is absurd...and for that matter, that job remaining steady and available for that long is equally an absurb assumption..

There may be unemployed Ph Ds is Canada but they are no different from the thousands of underemployed H1-B immigrants in the US, not being able to make career moves because of the employer sponsored petitiions..

My .02 cents..
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:19 PM
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Default Slowness

The slowness that results because of employer petition and bureaucratic delays(backlogs centers) and quota delays(retrogression) IS A HUGE PROBLEM. Please read my original post.

I am not saying that US system is perfect. I am saying that the employer-petition(if working properly and speedily) is better than points-based system(as two different comparable methods of adjudication for immigration) to protect the workforce from oversupply of labor.

If current system wasnt a problem, our work would be done. If the whole GC process took less than 2 years, it would be not bad and being stuck with one employer for 2 years is probably workable for most people.

And yes, please dont get me wrong, IV has not changed its goals or diluted its goals, I am merely voicing my opinion on the debate/discussion over different countries' immigration system and how they stack up against each other - both for immigrants and for those countries.

Last edited by logiclife; 05-10-2006 at 06:28 PM.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2006, 06:25 PM
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Default Fluctuating Points

Dont also forget that the points you need to make for the Canadian system is reviewed periodically. It can go up or down based on the need for skilled immigrants. This way they control the numbers.Then, live in Canada as a PR for 3 years and you are citizen. That is what I call a defined PATH. Something you can work towards... it also serve as an incentive for not towing the illegal route!!

Live responsibly and legally in the United States for 15 years you can still be "kicked out"...employer petition is bondage my friend... There should be an earned path towards AT THE LEAST permanent residency, if not citizenship. Why would most people bother if it is almost impossible to achieve this through a legal path??? Easy solution? FRAUD!
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Old 05-10-2006, 06:27 PM
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Default

Thanks for the clarification. Actually what i meant was, we did highlight to the lawmakers at some point that the points based system is better. I know it was never IV's policy to ask for a points based system.

And yes if the system worked fine, the US is definitely better than aus and canada combined. Money and everything wise. I guess someone on here correctly pointed out that it is the sheer volume of immigrants combined with the fact that there is no real incentive to speed things up. The employer is happy coz there is no need to raise wages and new h1's can always be hired, the immigration attorneys are happy coz they make money due to slowness, the American techie population is happy coz there is no mass influx of tech workers to "drive the wages lower", Anti-immigrant organizations are happy coz once again no mass influx which may lead to "chain migration", the Apartment industry is happy coz if u cant buy u HAVE to rent, and lastly UCSIS/DOL people are happy coz they get more time to review each case. If there is no point to granting you the GC faster why will they? You will pay the same amt of tax b4 and after ur GC. Now in the Canadian system, there is a Fixed Path AND it is QUICK. Both have to go hand in hand. Like one of my friends pointed out, in the US ur spouse cannot work and ur uncertain. In the UK/AUS/Canada, you make less money but we are more secure coz you can both work and we can buy a house etc. Once again this sounds like a broken record, but it is true.

Last edited by eb3_nepa; 05-10-2006 at 06:37 PM.
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