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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2009, 12:05 PM
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Default

The trick is to say that you have unrestricted work authorization, i.e., can work for any employer without needing additional sponsorship. Stating that you have an EAD may be confusing to some and they may just take the easy way out by not pursuing further, or, wilfully rejecting to avoid any kind of complications later on that could jeopardize the specific project by suddennly being unable to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanduv23 View Post
When I looked for jobs I have seen employers or reqruiters asking what is my status and if I say I have EAD some of them will say "OK, no problem" but will not get back because they have instruction from hiring managers to hire only GC or USC. The hiring manager may not be well informed enough or may not want to deal with things with USCIS (perception, because all USCIS wants is a verification letter which is common and other agencies like Banks, DMVs etc.. may also request the same)

I have noticed that a lot of people are not comfortable about dealing with USCIS - it could be a stigma.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2009, 12:16 PM
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h1b_forever is a glorious beacon of light h1b_forever is a glorious beacon of light h1b_forever is a glorious beacon of light h1b_forever is a glorious beacon of light h1b_forever is a glorious beacon of light h1b_forever is a glorious beacon of light
Default Are we being discriminated?

There were times when people with certain disease were discriminated against.
Now that seems to be happening to people with EAD / GC(sometimes).
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:14 PM
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Default

You stole words from my mouth. Do not tell them that you have EAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyghoda View Post
The trick is to say that you have unrestricted work authorization, i.e., can work for any employer without needing additional sponsorship. Stating that you have an EAD may be confusing to some and they may just take the easy way out by not pursuing further, or, wilfully rejecting to avoid any kind of complications later on that could jeopardize the specific project by suddennly being unable to work.
__________________
Came to US in 2001
First Labor - 2002 (BEC, job loss)
Second Labor- July 2005 EB3-I
I-140 - Approved
I-485 - July 2007 and pending
Filed 2nd labor in 2009
Filed 2nd I-140 in 2009
Ported the PD
GC in 08-2010 almost 10 years after coming to the US.
*****************************
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2009, 01:52 PM
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stuckinretro is infamous around these parts
Default

Discriminating based on Immigration status is not considered violation of EEO laws.

EEO protects from discrimination on the basis of race, sex, creed, religion, color, or national origin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walking_dude View Post
While we keep hearing the rhetoric about "H1B-only ads" by anti-immigrant groups, there is absolutely no news about thousands of "US Citizens only" or "US citizen or GC onl"y ads that we see every day.

While I understand there is a genuine case of 'Citizens Only' when it comes to jobs that involve national security, 98% of the job ads have nothing to do with national security and or government clearance. Most of these are clear and simple violations of Equal Employment Opportunity law, and hence illegal.

Since no one seems to be interested in reporting on this pervasive violation of law and illegal behavior, I have decided to start this thread to report on this highly-prevalent form of discrimination. I invite other members to post similar Job-ad E-mails on this thread (or open other threads) to highlight this issue. This will enable us to post the links whenever someone brings-up the issue of H1b-only Ads next trime. It might also enable members to report to EEOC in large numbers and/or shame the recruiters/employers from posting such blatantly discriminatory job ads.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi:

Greetings for the Day!

This is Ruby from Charter Global Inc. Our client is looking for a "Java/ J2ee Developer" in Warren NJ. This could be a great opportunity for you and all you need is to reply to this message to indicate your interest, availability, legal status and salary requirements with your updated resume to present to our client.


Rate: $42/ hr during the contract
Job Title: Java/ J2ee Developer
Location: Warren NJ
Duration: 6 Months Contract with possible extension

Client for this position is looking for Only US Citizens

Strong J2EE, Java, Struts, Oracle resumes right away
Plus: Spring and Hibernate


Regards
Ruby Roy
Technical Recruiter
Charter Global, Inc.
Toll Free: (866) 570-1818 X 337
Fax: 404-745-8755
E-mail: Ruby@charterglobal.com
URL: Welcome to Charter Global Inc.

-----------------------------------------------------
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2009, 02:42 PM
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Default Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinretro View Post
Discriminating based on Immigration status is not considered violation of EEO laws.

EEO protects from discrimination on the basis of race, sex, creed, religion, color, or national origin.
EEO does not protect immigration status based discrimination. However Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 does protect against discrimination based on immigration status.

https://www.oig.lsc.gov/legis/irca86.htm

SEC. 102. UNFAIR IMMIGRATION-RELATED EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES.
__________________
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Last edited by gc28262; 06-26-2009 at 02:44 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2009, 03:01 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
EEO does not protect immigration status based discrimination. However Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 does protect against discrimination based on immigration status.

https://www.oig.lsc.gov/legis/irca86.htm

SEC. 102. UNFAIR IMMIGRATION-RELATED EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES.
Could you please show us, where in the link you provided, H-1B applicant needs to treated equally for job hiring as compared to GC and EAD workers.

EOE deals with equality (i.e. equal opportunities) for hiring, job promotion, and firing.

IRC Act 1985 deals with unlawful employment of aliens, unfair immigration-related employment practices, and fraud & misuse of certain immigration-related documents.

Two different things.

However, once H-1B applicant is hired, he/she is protected just like any other worker, for job promotions, training, and other work conditions. But employer is under no obligation to extend H-1B beyond any initial H-1B petition date. And, yes, H-1B can also be fired at will*, just like any other worker.


_________________________
Not a legal advice
US citizen of Indian origin

Last edited by desi3933; 06-26-2009 at 03:05 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:21 PM
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Default We have to correct the misinformation being spread about foreign workers

A note to my fellow IV members - I am not after the $42/Hr job. Good luck in finding a US citizen to do this job. I was wrong about EEO, it is actually IRCA which prohibits discrimination in recruitment and hiring.

Best Practices for hiring workers from Department of Justice

But the point remains - visa status based discrimination is illegal not matter which law is being violated, and must be highlighted. We have to correct the misinformation spread by anti-immigrant groups that most jobs are "reserved for H1Bs", while the reality is different. Most jobs are "reserved" for American workers (although such reservation is illegal under IRCA). We have to provide the proof that the myth of "thousands of jobs reserved for foreign workers" in nothing but a myth. My posting is a small step in that direction.

Here is another one in the continuing series of exposing the highly prevalent illegal hiring practice. I request everyone to start posting similar job-ads you get from recruiters. Once we get a hundred or more ads here, we can start E-mailing the links to the media.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

fromPatricia (Vyshnavi Infotech) <patricia@vysinc.com>
to"Patricia (Vyshnavi Infotech)" <patricia@vysinc.com>

dateMon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:56 PM
subjectJobs for Web logic consultants


HI,

This is Patricia Evan. I have the below position for one of my clients. If you are interested in this position please send me your updated resume.

Web logic Java Consultant

Duration is 6 months.
Location is Connecticut

Must be US Citizen

Looking for a Weblogic Java Consultant with strong pharmaceutical experience
this person will be building webpage’s and build controls to access database Page flow development for a portal that supports my clients clinical trial tracking process. This internal/external portal
allows documents to be accessed and uploaded, etc.

The successful candidates should have the skills mentioned below and also know how to debug problems, how to configure into weblog console, and query a database to join tables. Client will teach the business processes.

Must Haves:
Deep development skills
Weblogic Admin tool 10.2
Apache Beehive Page Flow
Database controls
Java/JSP
Strong SQL
Oracle 10G (preferred)
AJAX
Java Script

Candidate must have all of above….strong Apache Beehive Page Flow is key to position.



Regards,
Patricia Evan
IT Recruiter
Vyshnavi Infotech INC
Herndon, VA 20170
PH : 703-793-1868 Ext 211
Fax: 703-547-0135
Emailatricia@vysinc.com
__________________
Truth Will Set You Free

Last edited by walking_dude; 06-27-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2009, 10:53 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi3933 View Post
Could you please show us, where in the link you provided, H-1B applicant needs to treated equally for job hiring as compared to GC and EAD workers.

EOE deals with equality (i.e. equal opportunities) for hiring, job promotion, and firing.

IRC Act 1985 deals with unlawful employment of aliens, unfair immigration-related employment practices, and fraud & misuse of certain immigration-related documents.

Two different things.

However, once H-1B applicant is hired, he/she is protected just like any other worker, for job promotions, training, and other work conditions. But employer is under no obligation to extend H-1B beyond any initial H-1B petition date. And, yes, H-1B can also be fired at will*, just like any other worker.


_________________________
Not a legal advice
US citizen of Indian origin
desi3933,

Here is the part of the law that says a job aspirant should not be discriminated by his/her immigration status as long as he/she has a valid work permit( H1B/GC/EAD/Citizenship).


"(1) GENERAL RULE. -- It is an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to discriminate against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien) with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from employment --

The only individual that can be discriminated against is an unauthorized alien. H1B/GC/EAD/Citizen does not fall in this category.

Walking dude's effort will at least highlight the fact that H1Bs are not preferred over GCs/Citizens. In fact it is the other way around. One of my colleague who recently got his GC, was surprised to see so many job offers opening up for him just because he was a GC hoder.
__________________
Member of IV DC Chapter
IV Advocacy Day 2010 participant
My EB Blog: http://ebimmigrationreference.blogspot.com

Last edited by gc28262; 06-27-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2009, 02:47 AM
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Default Great effort as always

I will post any Jobs that I come across that only ask for US citizens or GC's


Quote:
Originally Posted by walking_dude View Post
While we keep hearing the rhetoric about "H1B-only ads" by anti-immigrant groups, there is absolutely no news about thousands of "US Citizens only" or "US citizen or GC onl"y ads that we see every day.

While I understand there is a genuine case of 'Citizens Only' when it comes to jobs that involve national security, 98% of the job ads have nothing to do with national security and or government clearance. Most of these are clear and simple violations of Equal Employment Opportunity law, and hence illegal.

Since no one seems to be interested in reporting on this pervasive violation of law and illegal behavior, I have decided to start this thread to report on this highly-prevalent form of discrimination. I invite other members to post similar Job-ad E-mails on this thread (or open other threads) to highlight this issue. This will enable us to post the links whenever someone brings-up the issue of H1b-only Ads next trime. It might also enable members to report to EEOC in large numbers and/or shame the recruiters/employers from posting such blatantly discriminatory job ads.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi:

Greetings for the Day!

This is Ruby from Charter Global Inc. Our client is looking for a "Java/ J2ee Developer" in Warren NJ. This could be a great opportunity for you and all you need is to reply to this message to indicate your interest, availability, legal status and salary requirements with your updated resume to present to our client.


Rate: $42/ hr during the contract
Job Title: Java/ J2ee Developer
Location: Warren NJ
Duration: 6 Months Contract with possible extension

Client for this position is looking for Only US Citizens

Strong J2EE, Java, Struts, Oracle resumes right away
Plus: Spring and Hibernate


Regards
Ruby Roy
Technical Recruiter
Charter Global, Inc.
Toll Free: (866) 570-1818 X 337
Fax: 404-745-8755
E-mail: Ruby@charterglobal.com
URL: Welcome to Charter Global Inc.

-----------------------------------------------------
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2009, 07:46 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
desi3933,

Here is the part of the law that says a job aspirant should not be discriminated by his/her immigration status as long as he/she has a valid work permit( H1B/GC/EAD/Citizenship).


"(1) GENERAL RULE. -- It is an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to discriminate against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien) with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from employment --

The only individual that can be discriminated against is an unauthorized alien. H1B/GC/EAD/Citizen does not fall in this category.
Thanks for your reply.

H-1B visa holder is not authorized alien to work for any employer. Employer can not be asked to provide H-1B sponsorship.

Infact H-1B worker has lot of restrictions related to his work. H1-B worker has to work only in his job location and pay range as specified in LCA. Any significant changes in job location, job duties, and/or salary requires LCA and H-1B petition amendment. H-1B worker is out of status when out of job for any reason. EAD holders, OPT are immigrants, who are not permanent resident, but they do not have such restrictions. And, thats why, they are authorized alien to work for any employer. (Hint: SSN card for H-1B holder has line - work with USCIS authorization only whereas GC/EAD holder does not have that line on their SSN card).

Authorized alien include EAD holders, GC holders, OPT, and US citizens. If you don't believe me, feel free to put this question in lawyer's forum and let me know what response you get.

Now, coming back to your quote
Quote:
"(1) GENERAL RULE. -- It is an unfair immigration-related employment practice for a person or other entity to discriminate against any individual (other than an unauthorized alien) with respect to the hiring, or recruitment or referral for a fee, of the individual for employment or the discharging of the individual from employment --
This simply means that Employer can not discriminate for hiring (or other aspects of hiring) any individual because of Immigration status (i.e. GC, EAD, OPT). For an employer, two applicants can not be discriminated because of their immigrant status, as long as they are authorized to work for the employer.

In fact, from legal pont of view, applicant requiring H-1B sponsorship can br refused without assigning any reason beyond employer can not sponsor H-1B visa at this time.

It is legal to advertise job that this job position is open for workers who have unrestricted work authorization. EAD is nonrestrictive work authorization in spite of its expiration date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
Walking dude's effort will at least highlight the fact that H1Bs are not preferred over GCs/Citizens. In fact it is the other way around. One of my colleague who recently got his GC, was surprised to see so many job offers opening up for him just because he was a GC holder.
Again, this is because, as GC holder and H-1B worker are not at par due to restrictions in work authorization. Employers can not be asked to apply for H-1B visa. Most employers would like to avoid hassle of visa sponsorship (additional paper work and legal requirements) and they prefer hiring H-1B worker as contractor through consulting company instead of employee.



_______________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin

Last edited by desi3933; 06-28-2009 at 08:02 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2009, 08:08 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by walking_dude View Post
A note to my fellow IV members - I am not after the $42/Hr job. Good luck in finding a US citizen to do this job. I was wrong about EEO, it is actually IRCA which prohibits discrimination in recruitment and hiring.

Best Practices for hiring workers from Department of Justice
Thanks, Walking_Dude, for putting this link.

As per web page on this link -
Quote:
Do allow all employees (including non-U.S. citizens) to provide any permissible documents to establish their identity or work authorization during the employment verification process.
This will exclude applicants on H-1B visa status as they don't have work authorization to work for the new employer.

However, as I said before, Employer can not discriminate between GC holder, EAD, and OPT holder.


.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2009, 10:33 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi3933 View Post
Thanks for your reply.

H-1B visa holder is not authorized alien to work for any employer. Employer can not be asked to provide H-1B sponsorship.

Infact H-1B worker has lot of restrictions related to his work. H1-B worker has to work only in his job location and pay range as specified in LCA. Any significant changes in job location, job duties, and/or salary requires LCA and H-1B petition amendment. H-1B worker is out of status when out of job for any reason. EAD holders, OPT are immigrants, who are not permanent resident, but they do not have such restrictions. And, thats why, they are authorized alien to work for any employer. (Hint: SSN card for H-1B holder has line - work with USCIS authorization only whereas GC/EAD holder does not have that line on their SSN card).

Authorized alien include EAD holders, GC holders, OPT, and US citizens. If you don't believe me, feel free to put this question in lawyer's forum and let me know what response you get.

Now, coming back to your quote
This simply means that Employer can not discriminate for hiring (or other aspects of hiring) any individual because of Immigration status (i.e. GC, EAD, OPT). For an employer, two applicants can not be discriminated because of their immigrant status, as long as they are authorized to work for the employer.

In fact, from legal pont of view, applicant requiring H-1B sponsorship can br refused without assigning any reason beyond employer can not sponsor H-1B visa at this time.

It is legal to advertise job that this job position is open for workers who have unrestricted work authorization. EAD is nonrestrictive work authorization in spite of its expiration date.



Again, this is because, as GC holder and H-1B worker are not at par due to restrictions in work authorization. Employers can not be asked to apply for H-1B visa. Most employers would like to avoid hassle of visa sponsorship (additional paper work and legal requirements) and they prefer hiring H-1B worker as contractor through consulting company instead of employee.



_______________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin

desi3933,

Your points well taken. However all the arguments you are saying about H1B is the practical way employers do their hiring. However as per law they cannot discriminate based on immigration status including H1B. Employers cannot even ask the candidate to have a particular type of work authorization.

No employer can advertise a job only for GC/Citizen unless they have a valid reason (the job needs security clearance etc.).

BTW the law does not say that authorized alien should have a work permit allowing him to work for any employer.

My turn to ask you a proof.
Can you show me a law that says H1B can be treated differently with respect to other work authorization for hiring/firing ?

Last edited by gc28262; 06-28-2009 at 10:36 AM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2009, 10:39 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
desi3933,

Your points well taken. However all the arguments you are saying about H1B is the practical way employers do their hiring. However as per law they cannot discriminate based on immigration status including H1B. Employers cannot even ask the candidate to have a particular type of work authorization.
Let me ask you a straight question -

Are you suggesting the employer is required, by law, to file for H-1B sponsorship for the job applicant?



.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
No employer can advertise a job only for GC/Citizen unless they have a valid reason (the job needs security clearance etc.).
What are you drinking? How can GC holder get security clearance? Also, there are some jobs that may require US citizen without any requirement for security clearance. Example: Defence projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
BTW the law does not say that authorized alien should have a work permit allowing him to work for any employer.
Read I-9 form. Employee must have work authorization before he/she can start work.

Read more here
Compliance Assistance Employment Law Guide - Authorized Workers (Non - U.S. Citizens)


Quote:
Originally Posted by gc28262 View Post
My turn to ask you a proof.
Can you show me a law that says H1B can be treated differently with respect to other work authorization for hiring/firing ?
I have said before, once hired, H-1B worker enjoys same treatment as other workers for job promotions and firing.

Regarding the hiring part,
first read here about H-1 visa
H-1B Specialty (Professional) Workers

The H-1B program allows an employer to temporarily employ a foreign worker in the U.S. on a nonimmigrant basis in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.

Now, read more about H-1B LCA here
http://www.lca.doleta.gov/h1bcl_nw.pdf

Nowhere it mentions that for qualified applicant, employer has to file LCA and H-1B petition.

On the other hand, Form I-9 clearly states, that employer must verify eligibility for the employee at the time of job start.

More about LCA here
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...cfr655.721.pdf


Now, if you think, even after reading these documents that employer can be forced to file for H-1B at the time of hiring, I can suggest put your question in lawyers forum.

Hopefully, you will trust lawyer more than me.

Have a good day!
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:48 AM
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desi,

I am not trying to make an argument here. I am saying what I am seeing in law.

Security Clearance.
I didn't say GC holder can get security clearance. I was listing one scenario where employer is exempt from the requirement as per law.

<quote>
Now, if you think, even after reading these documents that employer can be forced to file for H-1B at the time of hiring, I can suggest put your question in lawyers forum.

</quote>

On a practical note, if the company has sponsored H1Bs in the past, what justification can the company give for not filing another H1B ?

Practically there are many ways a company can avoid hiring an H1B or GC if they want to. But the point is, as per law that is illegal.
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