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Receipt tracker of 485, EAD and AP applications Track receipt notices, checks and processing delays in 485, EAD and AP petitions.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default EB Spillover visa usage based on oldest Priority date

I am starting this new thread to discuss about EB visas spillover usage based on oldest priority date irrespective of category/country. Currently the spillover happens vertically(a top down approach) from EB1 -> EB2 -> EB3...etc. Instead it should be first used on cases with oldest priority date. This will not only give a good move to clear the backlog but will also be a fair rule for those who are patiently waiting in queue for a long time. I wrote my concern about this to my local congressman. I also request each one of you, who is impacted by this, or who is interested to help us out, to kindly contact your local congressman/woman to express your concern. In turn they can contact USCIS to implement this fair rule to help us all out.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:58 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanhari View Post
I am starting this new thread to discuss about EB visas spillover usage based on oldest priority date irrespective of category/country. Currently the spillover happens vertically(a top down approach) from EB1 -> EB2 -> EB3...etc. Instead it should be first used on cases with oldest priority date. This will not only give a good move to clear the backlog but will also be a fair rule for those who are patiently waiting in queue for a long time. I wrote my concern about this to my local congressman. I also request each one of you, who is impacted by this, or who is interested to help us out, to kindly contact your local congressman/woman to express your concern. In turn they can contact USCIS to implement this fair rule to help us all out.
How about basing it on when a person entered the country. Will that be fair for you?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:08 PM
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Default

I think it is fair to go by EB level than priority date. Usually the levels mean qualifications. I think they deserve to get GC first! That makes more sense to me.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 07:25 PM
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If u want to be fair, fight to remove country quota and not fight among EB categories
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2010, 09:18 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vin13 View Post
If u want to be fair, fight to remove country quota and not fight among EB categories
I agree with you vin13, remove country quota or by number of years we are legally here in US.
Base on PD is not fare enough. Many of us filed GC vary late because of one or many reasons.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 03:23 PM
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Default EB3 is suffering not EB2

Quote:
Originally Posted by baba2s View Post
I agree with you vin13, remove country quota or by number of years we are legally here in US.
Base on PD is not fare enough. Many of us filed GC vary late because of one or many reasons.
I understand why you all are not favoring my call, since you all are EB2, EB3 is suffering because of no movement and huge backlog and EB2 is gaining because of Spillover, so you all are not favoring this. Anyway we are trying our best to get some relief for those hanging around with older priority date, let's see...
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 03:49 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanhari View Post
I understand why you all are not favoring my call, since you all are EB2, EB3 is suffering because of no movement and huge backlog and EB2 is gaining because of Spillover, so you all are not favoring this. Anyway we are trying our best to get some relief for those hanging around with older priority date, let's see...
Let's please not start EB2 and EB3 fight again.

What I understand (and I am not a lawyer), is to change the current situation, law must be changed. Congressman can be helpful here, but only if there is going to be a change in law. A congressman can not simply call USCIS to change the way they do things. They must come up with legislative change that can then be followed by USCIS.

Now for any legislative change, there is resistance from CHC to let it pass as a small piece, rather they want more comprehensive approach. This issue is so complex and no political party or politicians are interested in opeing the can of worms.

Did you see O'Riely interview Sarah Palin?? She could not answer the question that was "yes or no" (I am not much impressed with her IQ any way...but that was one example).

Under current circumstances, the only two hopes for EB3 India are:
1. Port over to EB2.
2. Legislative change which effectively will mean immigration reform with good provisions for EB immigration.

What can we relay to our congressmen? (and we all should do it):
- Employment based immigration is good for the economic health of this country: it creates jobs, EB immigrants pay taxes, buy houses, they are educated etc.
- EB immigration is only a small fraction of immigration currently (I forgot the exact %, I believe it is 12%). And it carries "country cap" in the name of "diversity". However no such control exist for the majority of rest of immigration (88%) and so there is no diversity clause there....why is it only on EB immigration.
- EB immigrants pay a major portion of income to USCIS. While data is not availabe from USCIS, if we do the math (based on filing fees), it pays for > 50% of income of USCIS while it constitutes only 12% of their workload.

Bottom line:
- Increasing EB immigration can only bring prosperity to this country. If at all immigration needs to be curbed, it should be other areas where rest of 88% of immigration is occuring which may not be good for the country's economy.
- Increase the annual quota of EB immigration, remove the country cap, make it simple to attract more talent from the rest of the world.
- In fact anyone who completes masters of higher degree in STEM, should be oferred immigration benefit automatically.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default No I don't think it requires a change of Law

how to use the spillover is purely an USCIS decision. Only to use the spillover to avoid wastage is a law, which is already in place. Infact USCIS was not doing this top down approach on spill over few years ago, this is a new practice they are following since last Fiscal Year, so I strongly believe if Congressmen/women puts pressure/more request it can be changed to a fair application of visa spillover to benefit all that are in the queue for a long wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kondur_007 View Post
Let's please not start EB2 and EB3 fight again.

What I understand (and I am not a lawyer), is to change the current situation, law must be changed. Congressman can be helpful here, but only if there is going to be a change in law. A congressman can not simply call USCIS to change the way they do things. They must come up with legislative change that can then be followed by USCIS.

Now for any legislative change, there is resistance from CHC to let it pass as a small piece, rather they want more comprehensive approach. This issue is so complex and no political party or politicians are interested in opeing the can of worms.

Did you see O'Riely interview Sarah Palin?? She could not answer the question that was "yes or no" (I am not much impressed with her IQ any way...but that was one example).

Under current circumstances, the only two hopes for EB3 India are:
1. Port over to EB2.
2. Legislative change which effectively will mean immigration reform with good provisions for EB immigration.

What can we relay to our congressmen? (and we all should do it):
- Employment based immigration is good for the economic health of this country: it creates jobs, EB immigrants pay taxes, buy houses, they are educated etc.
- EB immigration is only a small fraction of immigration currently (I forgot the exact %, I believe it is 12%). And it carries "country cap" in the name of "diversity". However no such control exist for the majority of rest of immigration (88%) and so there is no diversity clause there....why is it only on EB immigration.
- EB immigrants pay a major portion of income to USCIS. While data is not availabe from USCIS, if we do the math (based on filing fees), it pays for > 50% of income of USCIS while it constitutes only 12% of their workload.

Bottom line:
- Increasing EB immigration can only bring prosperity to this country. If at all immigration needs to be curbed, it should be other areas where rest of 88% of immigration is occuring which may not be good for the country's economy.
- Increase the annual quota of EB immigration, remove the country cap, make it simple to attract more talent from the rest of the world.
- In fact anyone who completes masters of higher degree in STEM, should be oferred immigration benefit automatically.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 06:33 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanhari View Post
how to use the spillover is purely an USCIS decision. Only to use the spillover to avoid wastage is a law, which is already in place. Infact USCIS was not doing this top down approach on spill over few years ago, this is a new practice they are following since last Fiscal Year, so I strongly believe if Congressmen/women puts pressure/more request it can be changed to a fair application of visa spillover to benefit all that are in the queue for a long wait.
Well Said..

The Spill over changed from the Year 2007 ...It will be Fair to allocate the spill over Visa to oldest PD for the Retrogessed country.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 07:36 PM
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Default Observation

I have observed in the past whenever an EB3 member brings a conversation of spillover to be used for older priority dates or for EB3 etc, the member has been marked with reds from EB2 members to express their dissatisfaction. Kondur, note that the infighting between EB3 and EB2 has been happening both ways for a very long time and USCIS has been successful in creating this divide.

Your thought process of change by lawmakers are noted. BTW the traction of EB2 members will always be lost every year around this time as EB2 candidates will end up bulletin watching till it affects that category.

This is a bitter truth we all have to swallow that between Jul - Sept every year there will be negligible EB2 members participating in IV's action items and on the other hand EB3 members feel that injustice has been dealt to them and end up feeling resigned.

At least this member sanhari is trying for something. If you all did not observe, he/she was voicing the same thoughts in the EB2-EB3 predictions thread, he was asked to not hijack that thread and was asked to create an own thread which was respectfully followed.

If we try to go offensive on members who are at least trying to do something than sitting idle, it is a shame. We need more EB2 members also who end up getting their green cards to comeback and support for this fight against EB3 members by contacting lawmakers to get some mass than talking about quarterly spillover etc. Because if the EB3 problems are addressed and we find a solution to resolve this backlog we never have to worry about spillovers or waitimes. But that rarely happens. Everybody wants a solution what works them or to be more precise, exactly till their priority date in their country and category.

I hope EB3 members start at least join this thread to show the support if not for this idea at least for future action items from IV Core. EB3 members have been passive whereas EB2 are active in predictions and bulletin watching. It really is disheartening looking at the participation or lack thereof in any EB3 threads. I hope we see some response at least...after which maybe IV Core can suggest how to proceed. When there is no participation, how much ever IV Core tries it is a difficult path. Note, IV Core is none other than members comprised with fellow candidates who are also stuck in this backlog.

Anyway sanhari, you are doing something better than doing nothing. So I commend you for that and I also appreciate how you respected fellow members sentiments in the EB2-EB3 predictions thread to create your own thread and not disturb their conversation. I am sorry I can only green you once for your effort.

But good luck with your efforts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanhari View Post
how to use the spillover is purely an USCIS decision. Only to use the spillover to avoid wastage is a law, which is already in place. Infact USCIS was not doing this top down approach on spill over few years ago, this is a new practice they are following since last Fiscal Year, so I strongly believe if Congressmen/women puts pressure/more request it can be changed to a fair application of visa spillover to benefit all that are in the queue for a long wait.
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Last edited by kartikiran; 07-19-2010 at 07:40 PM.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 08:24 PM
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Default very well said..

the above poster summarized it very good. here are some of my thoughts..

1) we can come up with a formal letter (standard one) which is well written and can be faxed to USCIS director or emailed.
2) we can also fax/email the same letter to ombudsman so that they are aware of this issue.

in my gut feeling ombudsman is as close as we can get to uscis if we need visibility to this. optionally we can use the same letter to send it to the senators/congressman.

The letter should be short, precise, upto the point, without any spelling mistakes, well written. if u look at this post itself, you could very well decide that i am not suitable for that job. can someone in eb3-I who has a good writing skill come up with such a letter and so that we can try what ever we can from our end. its every dog's battle here. and if sanyahari is fighting, its his / her right to do so. so what do u say folks?
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Total cost from the H1 days (new h1, extension, ead, ap, 140, 485 etc - $22000)
Total cost if I had bought a labor certification those days and having a GC by now - $15000
Not knowing if GC is this worth - Priceless.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default

It is indeed ugly and disgusting that anyone who talks of doing good to EB3 ends up getting reds. IV should remember that EB3 members outnumber EB2's by a vast margin and they deserve to get justice too

And it is not as if EB3's are less qualified. Most are as much or more qualified and experienced than EB2's. It is just an accident they are in EB3, as companies put them there when there was no difference in USCIS policy between the two

If I continue to see the treatment meted out to EB3's in these forums I would take the decision to quit IV..
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 08:56 PM
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Default

My thoughts:

I understand and share the despair and hopelessness felt by EB3 guys.

Unfortunately when Visa bulletin comes out and when EB2 progresses, we EB3 guys are suddenly aware of our plight and switch to action mode. After a while this enthusiasm fades away till the next bulletin. These emotional responses won't get us anywhere. If we need to get our issues resolved, we need to work on a consistent basis irrespective of the visa bulletin status. We all need to take more active participation in IVs action items as well as contributing to IV efforts as much as we can. IMO signing up for contributions is the easiest thing to do.

Spillover issues:
Upto 2007 these spillovers were coming to EB3. Some folks analysed INA and figured it out that USCIS/DOS was interpreting spillovers incorrectly and that it should flow across. So they contacted USCIS with their findings and argued for their cause. Since then USCIS/DOS interpretation of spillover interpretation changed. Remember these folks did a thorough analysis of the laws and then approached USCIS/DOS. So to change it the other way you have to have a solid legal basis. Writing to lawmakers just out of frustration will not help. If USCIS/DOS is interpreting spillovers correctly as per law, there isn't much anyone can change it without a legislative change.

If we have to go through legislative path, there are easier fixes that can be achieved by legislative fixes like visa recapture etc. That is the reason, IV has planned a long term strategy to end retrogression for all categories. We all need to participate in these action items, contact lawmakers etc with our issues.

Here is an official IV discussion about spillover rules:
ImmigrationVoice.org - USCIS data analysis

Quote:
Visa spillage rules
There is a supply of 140,000 permanent visas in the EB category for a year. EB1, EB2, EB3 have an equal share of 28.6% or 40,040 visas per year. There is a 7% cap per country on the overall legal immigration including family and skill based. This amounts to 25,620 visas for a single country in EB category. There is a rule to cap 27% of a category in a quarter. So in the first quarter only 10,811 (rounded) visas can be given in any of the categories.

If the supply exceeds demand capped by per country, then per country quota is relaxed to the matching ratio of family based approvals. For practical consideration, it means that the spillover visas beyond 25,620 to a single country can’t be given in the first 3 quarters. The last quarter spillover will need to be first in first out for all the retrogressed countries. This should not limit immigrants from other countries to use up their quota.

Following is the rule from INA Section 201to maintain ratio. There is a different section to override this logic in the last quarter of any calendar year.

(e) Special Rules for Countries at Ceiling. - If it is determined that the total number of immigrant visas made available under subsections (a) and (b) of section 203 to natives of any single foreign state or dependent area will exceed the numerical limitation specified in subsection (a)(2) in any fiscal year, in determining the allotment of immigrant visa numbers to natives under subsections (a) and (b) of section 203, visa numbers with respect to natives of that state or area shall be allocated (to the extent practicable and otherwise consistent with this section and section 203) in a manner so that

(1) the ratio of the visa numbers made available under section 203(a) to the visa numbers made available under section 203(b) is equal to the ratio of the worldwide level of immigration under section 201(c) to such level under section 201 (d);

(2) except as provided in subsection (a)(4), the proportion of the visa numbers made available under each of paragraphs (1) through (4) of section 203(a) is equal to the ratio of the total number of visas made available under the respective paragraph to the total number of visas made available under section 203(a), and

(3) 3/ except as provided in subsection (a)(5), the proportion of the visa numbers made available under each of paragraphs (1) through (5) of section 203(b) is equal to the ratio of the total number of visas made available under the respective paragraph to the total number of visas made available under section 203(b).

Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as limiting the number of visas that may be issued to natives of a foreign state or dependent area under section 203(a) or 203(b) if there is insufficient demand for visas for such natives under section 203(b) or 203(a), respectively, or as limiting the number of visas that may be issued under section 203(a)(2)(A) pursuant to subsection (a)(4)(A).

Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as limiting the number of visas that may be issued to natives of a foreign state or dependent area under section 203(a) or 203(b) if there is insufficient demand for visas for such natives under section 203(b) or 203(a) , respectively, or as limiting the number of visas that may be issued under section 203(a)(2)(A) pursuant to subsection (a)(4)(A).

Last edited by gc28262; 07-20-2010 at 08:05 AM.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sanhari View Post
I am starting this new thread to discuss about EB visas spillover usage based on oldest priority date irrespective of category/country. Currently the spillover happens vertically(a top down approach) from EB1 -> EB2 -> EB3...etc. Instead it should be first used on cases with oldest priority date. This will not only give a good move to clear the backlog but will also be a fair rule for those who are patiently waiting in queue for a long time. I wrote my concern about this to my local congressman. I also request each one of you, who is impacted by this, or who is interested to help us out, to kindly contact your local congressman/woman to express your concern. In turn they can contact USCIS to implement this fair rule to help us all out.

I can't understand why Sanhari's suggestion would rile up EB2 folks. All he suggested was to use the EB spillover visas for oldest cases irrespective of EB category and country.

Sanhari - Are you sure that this is a USCIS decision? Can USCIS change the way the do the spillover without legislation change?

Folks, There is a another thread on here that says IV is neither against EB3 nor for EB2. If that's really the case why would Sanhari's suggestion not find favor? If IV seriously want to do something for the backlog, Sanhari's suggestion should be taken up.

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2010, 10:37 PM
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Priority Date
:
Mar-06
Category
:
EB2
I140 Mailed Date
:
08/21/2006
Chargeability
:
India
Processing Stage
:
I-485
I485 Mailed Date
:
07/01/2007
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 52
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Default Add EB1 and Country quota

I agree with move. I will participate. Please add EB1 also in the list. EB1 also should get the GC based on priority as the title of the thread says. Also remove the country quota. That will make it purely first come first serve basis. Everybody is treated equally irrespective of country or background.
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