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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:52 PM
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Default Indian Schools

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/bu...&ex=1199422800

A couple of things about the article that makes it an interesting read..

#1) It praises Indian schools and the Indian education system

#2) "learning more at an earlier age, an emphasis on memorization and cramming,"

I always thought that memorization and cramming are the -ves of the Indian Education system, but funnily it is is interesting to note that the Japanese find those as a +ves of the system.

#3) JAPAN ; which was looked upon a decade ago as a prototype for success by almost the entire world is now looking at India as an example.!!

This article came at the right time for me, because earlier in the day, I just overheard a colleague mention to a guy how he had to deal with " some offshore super crappy developers".

Sanjay.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 06:16 PM
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Default Depends on what you expect out of the education system.

If you want your students to know that 2 + 2 = 4 or if you want them to know WHY 2 + 2 = 4. It is true that you cannot understand the latter without knowing the former.

I am not belittling the importance of perfectly knowing that 2 + 2 = 4 soon in life; but just emphasizing the fact that the education system should also try to inculcate critical reasoning, which may be lacking in Indian schools (from my experience; of course, I did not attend Little Angels elementary
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapota View Post
I am not belittling the importance of perfectly knowing that 2 + 2 = 4 soon in life; but just emphasizing the fact that the education system should also try to inculcate critical reasoning,
I agree, both aspects are very important during education, I've seen that most Indian schools don't put much emphasis on other aspects, like creative thinking, lateral thinking etc., which are very important too.


"Creativity without Intelligence is useless and Intelligence without Creativity is fruitless"

Sanjay.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:20 PM
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GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute GCBy3000 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Here

I went to a bar here and it had a speical on that day. 25cents per chicken tender. So I thought I would order 10. She took a paper and wrote 10 tenders and then took a calculator. She punched in some numbers for a while and got confused. I gave her $5 and she returned be back $3.25. All these hungama is with a calculator in hand for 5 minutes. I was so frustrated and took the extra 75 cents not to get that 75 cents, but to avoid the extra headache of explaing the math to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaymk View Post
I agree, both aspects are very important during education, I've seen that most Indian schools don't put much emphasis on other aspects, like creative thinking, lateral thinking etc., which are very important too.


"Creativity without Intelligence is useless and Intelligence without Creativity is fruitless"

Sanjay.
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Contributing 10 or 20 is always a pain when you have the option of getting it free.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:27 PM
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Default Ha ha

Enjoyed reading this line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCBy3000 View Post
took the extra 75 cents not to get that 75 cents, but to avoid the extra headache of explaing the math to her.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:31 PM
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FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of FinalGC has much to be proud of
Cool

Trust me the education System in US is very good. It brings out the creativity, entrepreneurship, ownership and passion from you. I believe this is really needed for any person to succeed, which missing in India. I hated the cramming stuff...never learned anything. Only when I started enjoying the studies and saw that I needed to have a passion of what I needed to do, did I land up somewhere, which finally got me through IIT.

Knowledge without wisdom is useless. Wisdom is the right application of knowledge. In USA, the education system helps you get that straight.

Yes, it is unfortunate that many people in USA hate Math and hence a majority of the Americans lack the basic math skills that many of us as engineers, doctors and lawyers are so proud off.

Trust me if you were in a bar, the person on the other side was there serving you because he/she never did their basic education. Hence, be proud of what you know and do not despise them for what they do not know.

Our parents kicked our butts to study hard, so we have done well. But the American culture does not do that......and those parents who do....surely get kids like the Google boys.. smart and determined. No wonder many of the Indian and Chinese kids come out to be smart in USA, since we all kick their butts to succeed, but not to cram.

Last edited by FinalGC; 01-02-2008 at 07:36 PM.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalGC View Post
Trust me the education System in US is very good. It brings out the creativity, entrepreneurship, ownership and passion from you. I believe this is really needed for any person to succeed, which missing in India. I hated the cramming stuff...never learned anything. Only when I started enjoying the studies and saw that I needed to have a passion of what I needed to do, did I land up somewhere, which finally got me through IIT.
Absolutely. I've seen that people here are on the extremes, you are either brilliant OR completely on the other side of the line. The schools try to emphasize a lot on the creative part of your brain and try to encourage you to think outside the box.

You cannot completly, waive of the education system here, the schools are driven by the local townships and the local townships decide on what is thought in their schools. That is the reason why you find some people to be extremely brilliant and some other to be not so much.

The partnership between the private industry and the colleges is also the best here The private industry funds the colleges for research, which lets many students get creative with their minds and bring out some good work, which in turn benefits the industry. It is a perfect loop. They tried to simulate this in India between an IIT and IBM, and needless to say it resulted in a complete disaster and ended up in scrapping the whole thing, which is a shame.

Sanjay.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 08:01 PM
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swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future swamy has a brilliant future
Default

i too crammed thru partly due to peer pressure & mostly sheer ignorance - got into iit etc - but wasnt my cup of coffee so ended up changing fields. now i'm light years away from engg but still enjoy math/physiscs for the sheer joy of it & shock our sci/tech consultants when they trip. doubt if many indian schools have counselling & let students figure out what their passion is - atleast none in madras have any counselling to speak of. ultimately schools dont matter - it just helps as a good stepping stone is all, esp here.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 11:13 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalGC View Post
Trust me the education System in US is very good. It brings out the creativity, entrepreneurship, ownership and passion from you. I believe this is really needed for any person to succeed, which missing in India. I hated the cramming stuff...never learned anything. Only when I started enjoying the studies and saw that I needed to have a passion of what I needed to do, did I land up somewhere, which finally got me through IIT.


Trust me if you were in a bar, the person on the other side was there serving you because he/she never did their basic education. Hence, be proud of what you know and do not despise them for what they do not know.

Our parents kicked our butts to study hard, so we have done well. But the American culture does not do that......and those parents who do....surely get kids like the Google boys.. smart and determined. No wonder many of the Indian and Chinese kids come out to be smart in USA, since we all kick their butts to succeed, but not to cram.

Completely agree... Most of us were shown only one path - be a engineer or be useless.... we followed it without realizing the importance till we got a job...

cheers
Iad
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 12:49 AM
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Default Middle school camp

I went to a middle school camp here and realised that students cannot tell whether a number is divisible by 2 or not by looking at the number. Had hard time explaining them on how to convert a decimal number to a binary number. Every one was using a calculator and were having hard time getting the remainder after division by 2

P.S. I am not saying that Indian education system is better but it has its own advantages. ie if one tries to understand the logic the
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 01:32 AM
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sankap is a jewel in the rough sankap is a jewel in the rough sankap is a jewel in the rough sankap is a jewel in the rough
Default Indian Education

I would any day want my child to get educated in the West than in India. Leadership, critical thinking, assertiveness, creative writing, and--above all--enjoying what you study/work are some of the great advantages of studying/working here in the West. Also, the career options for kids here are not just limited to the fields of medicine, engineering, and MBA, as is still the case in India. So the kids really don't have to be a part of the rat race as we all used to be. Thanks to the Western education and research, we see advances in science (astronomy, physics, geology, etc.) and humanities (philosophy, history, sociology, linguistics, etc.)--the fields considered "inferior" in India. India may be producing some of the world's best computer programmers, but one rarely hears about breakthrough Indian research in science, economics, and liberal arts.

Last edited by sankap; 01-03-2008 at 01:01 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 02:57 AM
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senk1s is a jewel in the rough senk1s is a jewel in the rough senk1s is a jewel in the rough senk1s is a jewel in the rough
Default my 2 cents + 2 paisa + 2 ...

In my opinion, the article talks about 'continuous improvement' and not 'resting on laurels'
I dont remember who said it (i think its jk - and i'm paraphrasing) The teacher and teachings are the same, the learner makes the difference.

The famed Toyota Production System - was opened to lots of OR scholars and researchers, from all over the globe. I'm pretty sure everyone 'intellectually' made sense of what is going on - and wrote tons of articles and books about it - but was that efficiency and effectiveness seen any where else? (GM partnered with Toyota - where corolla and pontiac are 'made' in fremont, ca)

There i go digressing again -
Instead of generalizing (or as it is more popularly known stereotyping) ... here are my responses to some of the posts

- every education system (gurukul, cohort, weekend, www, tv) has its + and - unfortunately some people are studying in a system that is not compatible with their learning style. Its just a delivery mechanism. atleast now there are options.
- i know an msee who took bartending classes and works at a bar on weekends
- Leadership - in my opinion Gandhi is a GOOD (i'm not comparing) leader - He was effective in communicating a vision/ mission and making people understand it and do something about it - and so is MLK. Leaders and leadership can and does germinate everywhere.
- i know a lot of people in India who didnt cram and i know a lot of people in US who worshipped different publisher's cram books

About calculators -
I can do 'some' math without calc (i think i got my 1st one in maybe 6th or 8th grade)
My father can do more math in the head than me (he probably got his first calc maybe 10 -12 years after he started working)
My grandfather's first calc was probably the plaything he bought me
Sakunthala Devi is called the human calculator
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 03:26 AM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjaymk View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/bu...&ex=1199422800

A couple of things about the article that makes it an interesting read..

#1) It praises Indian schools and the Indian education system

#2) "learning more at an earlier age, an emphasis on memorization and cramming,"
................................

This article came at the right time for me, because earlier in the day, I just overheard a colleague mention to a guy how he had to deal with " some offshore super crappy developers".

Sanjay.
Good education system in a country and "offshore super crappy developers" is not mutually exclusive. You may have the VERY BEST education system in the world and still have some "super crappy developers"
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 10:20 AM
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Default Not A Good Comparision

The article does not mention that the Japanese and the Americans are trying to compare the majority of their schools with the outcomes of a FEW well-chosen, highly-selective and well-regarded institutions in India. The quality of primary schools run by the government is a sad joke.

Due to its vast size and heterogeneity, whatever claim is made about India, the reverse of it is usually true as well.
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