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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2009, 11:56 PM
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WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future WaitingUnlimited has a brilliant future
Default Direct Route to Green Card for PhD Students

PhD students from around could apply for “green card” directly, soon this is going to be a reality, if the bill that was introduced in the US Congress could pass.

The main architect of the bill Mr. Jeff Flake, a Republican Congressman from Arizona, introduced the bill to allow only those foreign nationals having completed their PhDs in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM).

Jeff, you are THE MAN!!!

Any initiative to pursue him on our problems?

http://immigration.juris-global.com/...r-phd-students
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 03:47 AM
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Question Why only PhDs and STEM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaitingUnlimited View Post
PhD students from around could apply for “green card” directly, soon this is going to be a reality, if the bill that was introduced in the US Congress could pass.

The main architect of the bill Mr. Jeff Flake, a Republican Congressman from Arizona, introduced the bill to allow only those foreign nationals having completed their PhDs in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM).

Jeff, you are THE MAN!!!

Any initiative to pursue him on our problems?

http://immigration.juris-global.com/...r-phd-students
If the purpose of the bill is to stop the brain drain, then this should also include Masters degree holders, and include other selected high-contributing professions besides STEM
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We made history at the DC rally! This is only the beginning and Victory is the only option. We'll reach it together!

Let's focus on more action to stop the U.S. Reverse Brain Drain! Let's not let the iron cool!
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 12:08 PM
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If you want defeat the bill then you can try include the Master Degree also. This bill should not be changed as the chance of passing is very high now. If Master degree need to be included then seperate bill is best option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaime View Post
If the purpose of the bill is to stop the brain drain, then this should also include Masters degree holders, and include other selected high-contributing professions besides STEM
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senthil1 View Post
If you want defeat the bill then you can try include the Master Degree also. This bill should not be changed as the chance of passing is very high now. If Master degree need to be included then seperate bill is best option
well said. Even the numbers make sense. 1000 <<< 20,000.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 01:02 PM
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Default This bill may not have much real world impact

This bill may not have much real world impact.

PhDs any way do not face GC delays. They are current all the time.

Most of the PhDs work for non-quota institutions (universities, research institutes etc.) as far as H1 is concerned.

So the impact of this bill is very minimal. So its chance of passage is very high.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h1techSlave View Post
This bill may not have much real world impact.

PhDs any way do not face GC delays. They are current all the time.

Most of the PhDs work for non-quota institutions (universities, research institutes etc.) as far as H1 is concerned.

So the impact of this bill is very minimal. So its chance of passage is very high.
Agreed on every point, thought of posting exactly the same analysis.

EB1 never faced any delay, probably its reeeeee-presenting the same old thing whats it is now, nothing new.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Binny View Post
Agreed on every point, thought of posting exactly the same analysis.

EB1 never faced any delay, probably its reeeeee-presenting the same old thing whats it is now, nothing new.
EB1 does not require a phd. You need to prove you are extra ordinary. Getting qualified for EB1 is so tough even with a phd. Please go and check the facts.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h1techSlave View Post
This bill may not have much real world impact.

PhDs any way do not face GC delays. They are current all the time.

Most of the PhDs work for non-quota institutions (universities, research institutes etc.) as far as H1 is concerned.

So the impact of this bill is very minimal. So its chance of passage is very high.
As far as I know, a majority of PhD's work for for-profit organizations and commercial enterprises. So they come under H1 cap. Post doctoral research and non-profit organizations account for a fraction of PhD employment.

However, the question is not about H1. Most PhD's face the same difficult wait time in GC as others and most of them are in EB-2, contrary to the popular believe that PhDs quality for EB-1. Fresh PhD in EB-1 mostly results in a rejection. So removing some PhD from EB queue will help, however little it may be. I
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 02:02 PM
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Default you may be wrong here

[quote=h1techSlave;335542]This bill may not have much real world impact.

PhDs any way do not face GC delays. They are current all the time.


Actually, Under the present EB categorization PhD is not the only reqiurement. You have to prove to be 'Outstanding /Extraordinary researcher' and here attorney has to make realy effort to make the case and most attorneys suggest filing EB2 (since labour gurantees I140 approval) instead of EB1 to avoid doing extra work.

BTW if STEM passes, will it take care/ benefit EB2 PhDs already filed?. Any thoughts?

Last edited by gbof; 04-19-2009 at 02:59 PM.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2009, 02:46 PM
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I doubt if the bill passes without support from democrats. anyone know what is the timeline for these bills? I hope this bill sees some light soon.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2009, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikra007 View Post
EB1 does not require a phd. You need to prove you are extra ordinary. Getting qualified for EB1 is so tough even with a phd. Please go and check the facts.
Without even having a phd its very rare to prove some as extraordinary except in case of prodigies who got international acclaims, so other than them majority falls in phd category.

Most of the times all kinds of proving depends on attorney's skill, intention as well applicants years of experience and contributions etc., as i know couple of phd's who has 3 to 4 patents in a group working with big b*** they got through EB1.

By the ways your last sentence is so polite, nice of you.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2009, 12:15 AM
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A move in the right direction! This will help with the clogged EB queues as current and future PhD applicants don't have to go through the EB system.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2009, 02:04 AM
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There should be an amendment that the Ph.D. must be paid by the University. Almost every genuine Ph.D. student works as an R.A. or a T.A.

Otherwise, you will find "self-paid" "Ph.D."s left and right from 300th ranked universities!

I am very sore on this point, not because I am against anyone getting GC, but because I want that the rigor and dignity of the Ph.D. degree remains intact.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2009, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysaikat View Post
There should be an amendment that the Ph.D. must be paid by the University. Almost every genuine Ph.D. student works as an R.A. or a T.A.

Otherwise, you will find "self-paid" "Ph.D."s left and right from 300th ranked universities!

I am very sore on this point, not because I am against anyone getting GC, but because I want that the rigor and dignity of the Ph.D. degree remains intact.
Are you very loose in saying ""self-paid" "Ph.D."s left and right from 300th ranked universities"
Lets assume someone paid for the PhD education. Someone is rich (not wrong to be rich, right) and has paid and completed successfully his PhD.
So can you note the important point here that he completed his PhD. You may pay to get an admission, but to continue in PhD and to come out, you got to be something, right..
And for that, getting a GC right after the course is not asking for too much.
I seriously doubt if you claim to be a PhD, but I am. And do not put any hurdles in this move by the goverment. One step at a time will get you also where you must be. You many be an EB3, or may be a visitor in US,. or someone in India. Yet.. this is good for all.
For ex: I plan to start a company, and who knows I can hire you. vice-versa applies as well.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2009, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suriajay12 View Post
Are you very loose in saying ""self-paid" "Ph.D."s left and right from 300th ranked universities"
Lets assume someone paid for the PhD education. Someone is rich (not wrong to be rich, right) and has paid and completed successfully his PhD.
So can you note the important point here that he completed his PhD. You may pay to get an admission, but to continue in PhD and to come out, you got to be something, right..
And for that, getting a GC right after the course is not asking for too much.
I seriously doubt if you claim to be a PhD, but I am. And do not put any hurdles in this move by the goverment. One step at a time will get you also where you must be. You many be an EB3, or may be a visitor in US,. or someone in India. Yet.. this is good for all.
For ex: I plan to start a company, and who knows I can hire you. vice-versa applies as well.
I am unfortunately speaking from my direct experience as a faculty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suriajay12 View Post
You may pay to get an admission, but to continue in PhD and to come out, you got to be something, right..
Unfortunately, no. The scenario I painted is not imaginary. I have experienced that in terms of M.S. degrees. There are about 350 U.S. universities that are licensed to grant M.S. degrees in Engineering related disciplines (cf. ASEE directories). If you leave out about 100 or so top ones, the degree programs offered by the rest do not in any sense resemblance a real "Masters'". Literally any (international) student with any kind of B.S. degree, who has the money to pay the application fee and cares to do so is given admission. More importantly, the classes are useless. They would teach in the grad courses what any good school would already thoroughly cover in the B.S. program (typically in 2nd or 3rd year). Even those topics cannot be taught to those students. Students would simply copy homework from (I guess) internet (or sometimes literally cut-and-paste from a solution manual, not even make superficial changes such as changing variable names). The M.S. projects are literally jokes. Most would copy-paste the report that they had prepared for their B.S. level project in their home country (which itself would often be copied from somewhere/written by someone else, etc.). If a teacher gets strict, even though s/he teaches well (and students acknowledge that privately) the students "boycott" his/her class by not choosing whatever class s/he offers in next semester. The teacher is toast if no student takes his/her class --- no matter how good s/he is in teaching or research --- since all the administration cares about is getting money from those students and keep them coming. In short, administration do not want to install quality control in the fear that if students perceive the university to be a "tough" place to get the degree, then they would not come (and therefore, the university would lose the millions of tuition money).

Right after (2003-2004) when congress added 20,000 additional H1-B visas for M.S. degree holders from U.S. universities, M.S. enrollment in such universities skyrocketed. The way the whole thing works is as follows. They get admission and comes to USA. Usually spend most of their time working in sandwich shops, restaurants and gas-stations, pay their tuition and feel that they have "purchased" the degree (e.g., everyone wants 'B' whether or not they can do anything). Now they apply for H1-B through a software consultancy (the student pays for the H1-B fee) in the M.S. quota. What they do afterwards (i.e., how they actually get a job and finish a project) is still a mystery to me. One of the students had enlightened me in that direction with the statement "They do not need to know anything --- they go to the client company and bug other people there for completing what is assigned to them".

Anyway, to sum up, unfortunately not all "U.S. universities" are equal. The gap in quality between the good ones (say, the top 50) and the bottom ones (say the last 200) are so humongous that I cannot even begin to describe. You cannot even begin to understand unless you have been in the unusual situation of being in both type of universities.

Coming back to the amendment --- In the current form, the chances of its misuse are too great. Yes, it is quite possible that there would be a very few individuals who do legitimate self-funded Ph.D. (In my 8 years, I have seen only two cases first-hand. Both were employed in research labs (one in Nokia, the other in BBN) and did Ph.D. part-time. The tuition might have been paid by their companies. But both of them already had green card/citizenship). This is always true in any kind of provisions. The best of the laws cover most people and not vulnerable to misuse and easy to enforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suriajay12 View Post
I seriously doubt if you claim to be a PhD, but I am.
I do have a Ph.D. in E.E. (from a top U.S. university) as well as post-doc from an Ivy league school. Unfortunately, I also have a couple of years of experience of being in one of those "bottom" schools (as a faculty).

Please do not try to dream up countering arguments until you have been in one of those bottom universities and know first-hand what I am talking about.
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Last edited by raysaikat; 04-20-2009 at 02:57 PM.
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