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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2009, 02:20 PM
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Post US protectionism: TCS hiring Americans

US protectionism: TCS hiring Americans

MUMBAI: Seeking to mitigate protectionist measures like visa restrictions being adopted by countries like US, the top Indian IT exporter, TCS, is looking to hire more local nationals in key markets.

Besides, the company, which already has more than 10,000 non-Indian nationals on its payroll, is also cutting down on the amount of work at its customer locations and move the work to other remote locations to ensure continuity for customers.

Listing out the various macro-economic risks for its businesses across the world, Tata Consultancy Service said in its annual report for 2008-09 that there has been "a rise in protectionist sentiment in many countries which are looking to impose tariff and non-tariff barriers affecting companies in the Indian IT industry."

"Some initiatives to curb mobility of IT professionals have been introduced in the US. The company is following the events closely to determine the impact, if any, on its operations," it added.

"To counter possible protectionist tendencies by other countries, the company is refining the business model to reduce the amount of work at customer locations and move work to other remote locations and hiring of more local nationals in key markets to ensure continuity for customers," TCS added.

To address these risks, TCS said, it was taking various steps such as "increasing the breadth and depth of service offerings and penetration of new customer accounts and markets to combat slowdown in some customer segments."

TCS saw the headcount of foreign national employees rising to 11,484 at the end of 2008-09, from 10,005 such employees a year ago. It incurred total overseas business expenses, towards employee allowances paid abroad, rose by about 27 per cent to Rs 4,572.28 crore in the fiscal ended March 31, 2009, from Rs 3,610.47 crore in the previous year.

Such expenses accounted for 16.44 per cent of total revenues in 2008-09, up from 15.96 per cent in the previous year. The company boasts of employees of 67 nationalities in its over 1,43,000-strong workforce. Recently, two other major Indian IT exporters , Infosys and Wipro, have also warned of possible adverse impact on their businesses due to the visa restrictions and other protectionist measures in the US.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by acecupid View Post
US protectionism: TCS hiring Americans

MUMBAI: Seeking to mitigate protectionist measures like visa restrictions being adopted by countries like US, the top Indian IT exporter, TCS, is looking to hire more local nationals in key markets.
For many years Indian Cos have been using the argument that there is no local talent available in US. How come they are hiring people in US now? Wipro, Infosys, TCS, etc are all hiring Americans now once their business model was about to be threatened. Basically it proves that these companies only wanted cheap labor from India so they could make more money. Quality/talent had no role to play.

Last edited by hopein07; 06-19-2009 at 12:57 PM.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009, 01:22 PM
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Default Not so fast

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Originally Posted by hopein07 View Post
Basically it proves that these companies only wanted cheap labor from India so they could make more money. Quality/talent had no role to play.
Either that or the recession has produced a bunch of laid-off Americans who could be hired ! Additionally theres no mention of skillsets of the people involved. TFA seems to allude that more work is being offshored due to protectionism and that the locally hired workers are probably Manager/ProjectManager types.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hopein07 View Post
For many years Indian Cos have been using the argument that there is no local talent available in US. How come they are hiring people in US now? Wipro, Infosys, TCS, etc are all hiring Americans now once their business model was about to be threatened. Basically it proves that these companies only wanted cheap labor from India so they could make more money. Quality/talent had no role to play.
Thats how things are. In IT consulting there is no fixed asset - only Humans (supposedly) who are programmers are the machines that generate revenue. Humans are not like machine where we can switch on, load, put pressure and throw and service - Human need to be replaced because Humans are intelligent forms compared to machines and may not behave the same all the time

IT business model is itself "Best value at cheapest cost " by beating beating beating up and getting as much out of it.

These IT companies are nothing but "milking the male cow"
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:39 PM
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There is no change of law in H1b . So there is no protectionism atleast till now. But USA govt started enforcing exisiting rules like bench policy, pay and asking for client letters etc to curb illegal hiring. This is not protectionism. If government violates law anyone can sue them and can get legal reprieve. It is just propaganda of Indian companies to apply pressure to USA govt to relax enforcement so that they can do illegal hiring and exploit H1b program. There are so many good people are available in the market in USA iteself including US citizens, GC holders,EADS and existing H1bs due to layoffs. What is the need for new h1bs or L1s?

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Originally Posted by chanduv23 View Post
Thats how things are. In IT consulting there is no fixed asset - only Humans (supposedly) who are programmers are the machines that generate revenue. Humans are not like machine where we can switch on, load, put pressure and throw and service - Human need to be replaced because Humans are intelligent forms compared to machines and may not behave the same all the time

IT business model is itself "Best value at cheapest cost " by beating beating beating up and getting as much out of it.

These IT companies are nothing but "milking the male cow"

Last edited by senthil1; 06-19-2009 at 01:44 PM.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by senthil1 View Post
There is no change of law in H1b . So there is no protectionism atleast till now. But USA govt started enforcing exisiting rules like bench policy, pay and asking for client letters etc to curb illegal hiring. This is not protectionism. If government violates law anyone can sue them and can get legal reprieve. It is just propaganda of Indian companies to apply pressure to USA govt to relax enforcement so that they can do illegal hiring and exploit H1b program. There are so many good people are available in the market in USA iteself including US citizens, GC holders,EADS and existing H1bs due to layoffs. What is the need for new h1bs or L1s?
I am sure, these rules and regulations did not have any values when you were in H1. You did not even dare to open your freaking mouth. How about a investigation about your GC. If there are bunch of USC available for job, what’s the need for your GC. Give up and pack you bags. I am not supporting any illegal activity. But my question is where were when you were in H1B. So if you are benefiting its OK. Otherwise you want to make it as a big issue.

Last edited by snathan; 06-19-2009 at 01:52 PM.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009, 02:00 PM
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I am sure, these rules and regulations did not have any values when you were in H1. You did not even dare to open your freaking mouth. How about a investigation about your GC. If there are bunch of USC available for job, what’s the need for your GC. Give up and pack you bags. I am not supporting any illegal activity. But my question is where were when you were in H1B. So if you are benefiting its OK. Otherwise you want to make it as a big issue.
It is all about timing. A lot of people who have EAD and AP now don't face the consulate grilling because they use AP to reenter. So it is same for USC or GC. Lot of people sometime back migrated and got citizenship via fake marriages ...

One has to adapt to circumstances that are prevailing at that time.

I have met lot of people who migrated to US in the 80s and 90s. They came on tourist visa and somehow got a GC - not sure how.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009, 02:32 PM
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I have met lot of people who migrated to US in the 80s and 90s. They came on tourist visa and somehow got a GC - not sure how.
A few years ago, I chatted with an Indian (could be Pakistani or Bangladeshi too) cab driiver in New York City on my way from a client meeting to the airport. He mentioned that he came almost 10-15 years back on a tourist visa, overstayed, then had a fake marriage with some crack whore from the Bronx and got his GC. He casually mentioned that he would pay her some fixed $$$ every week for her to buy her coke. The guy actually expressed pity on me and my H1 status.

Such is life.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2009, 02:38 PM
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Default No point in beating the market model

Some countries adopted the model early, that is why they have become attractive to immigrants. If this model was not there , US would have been former Russia. One can't have it both ways.

"Best value at cheapest cost" does not necessarily come at disregard to talent. Many companies recognize the need for retaining talent and create all kinds of incentives to do so.

if there are individuals who do not believe in "Best value at cheapest cost" here, just remind them there are still a lot of "babu" jobs back home.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chanduv23 View Post
Thats how things are. In IT consulting there is no fixed asset - only Humans (supposedly) who are programmers are the machines that generate revenue. Humans are not like machine where we can switch on, load, put pressure and throw and service - Human need to be replaced because Humans are intelligent forms compared to machines and may not behave the same all the time

IT business model is itself "Best value at cheapest cost " by beating beating beating up and getting as much out of it.

These IT companies are nothing but "milking the male cow"
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:49 PM
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I did not violate any law whether h1b or tax or any other till today. Also I do not benefit if they restrict h1b or relax H1b rules as I may go back to India after some time. If you are skilled and follow the rules why do you need to worry about enforcement. Many of my friends and relatives are in H1b now also but they were not impacted by current situation. The impacted persons are mainly those prepared fake resumes. I have no sympathy with them. Enforcement was there all the time but in past it was less now they are trying to see most applications.

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I am sure, these rules and regulations did not have any values when you were in H1. You did not even dare to open your freaking mouth. How about a investigation about your GC. If there are bunch of USC available for job, what’s the need for your GC. Give up and pack you bags. I am not supporting any illegal activity. But my question is where were when you were in H1B. So if you are benefiting its OK. Otherwise you want to make it as a big issue.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by senthil1 View Post
I did not violate any law whether h1b or tax or any other till today. Also I do not benefit if they restrict h1b or relax H1b rules as I may go back to India after some time. If you are skilled and follow the rules why do you need to worry about enforcement. Many of my friends and relatives are in H1b now also but they were not impacted by current situation. The impacted persons are mainly those prepared fake resumes. I have no sympathy with them. Enforcement was there all the time but in past it was less now they are trying to see most applications.
I am not against any law or enforcement either. You are always has mentality of anti-immigrant because you have got your GC. Are you ready for a investigation about GC process by USCIS. Then give me your details and see.

Last edited by snathan; 06-19-2009 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by crazyghoda View Post
A few years ago, I chatted with an Indian (could be Pakistani or Bangladeshi too) cab driiver in New York City on my way from a client meeting to the airport. He mentioned that he came almost 10-15 years back on a tourist visa, overstayed, then had a fake marriage with some crack whore from the Bronx and got his GC. He casually mentioned that he would pay her some fixed $$$ every week for her to buy her coke. The guy actually expressed pity on me and my H1 status.

Such is life.
True. But that guy had the courage to do all that which is quite unique. He is a self made man. Would you have the guts to do what he did? US rewards entreprenuership so it is no wonder he got GC but you are still waiting.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:32 PM
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True. But that guy had the courage to do all that which is quite unique. He is a self made man. Would you have the guts to do what he did? US rewards entreprenuership so it is no wonder he got GC but you are still waiting.
A study says that 'More educated you are, less risk you want to take". I agree that people do have to take risks and also be ready to face repurcussions.

There is a line someone can draw in taking risk and also what is ethical (in one's own opinion) - but it all depends on individual.

I have some information on how all these people get green cards. They come on tourist visas, then overstay and then marry a US Citizen (contract marriage - not real) and get a green card. Then they maintain the status till they get citizenship and officially divorce. Not sure how all this works out but those who do it maintain a very high level of secrecy and execute it well - they may be people among you, your friends, but you may never know. They may be well educated, doctors, have families, all excellent, but will follow this route for GC and citizenship.

No retrogression, no grilling at POE or driver license issues - smoothest ride to citizenship.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:38 PM
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A study says that 'More educated you are, less risk you want to take". I agree that people do have to take risks and also be ready to face repurcussions.

There is a line someone can draw in taking risk and also what is ethical (in one's own opinion) - but it all depends on individual.

I have some information on how all these people get green cards. They come on tourist visas, then overstay and then marry a US Citizen (contract marriage - not real) and get a green card. Then they maintain the status till they get citizenship and officially divorce. Not sure how all this works out but those who do it maintain a very high level of secrecy and execute it well - they may be people among you, your friends, but you may never know. They may be well educated, doctors, have families, all excellent, but will follow this route for GC and citizenship.

No retrogression, no grilling at POE or driver license issues - smoothest ride to citizenship.

That is correct!! Is there any solution to this? I guess not. You can just feel bad but thses courageous folks are taking risks and succeeding. It's like investments that if you don;t take a risk you can't make it big. If you don't buy lottery ticket in the first place you can't win a lottery. The world only rewards risk takers but sometimes also punishes them. Those in the middle can only sit, wahch the action and feel the despair
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by acecupid View Post
US protectionism: TCS hiring Americans

MUMBAI: Seeking to mitigate protectionist measures like visa restrictions being adopted by countries like US, the top Indian IT exporter, TCS, is looking to hire more local nationals in key markets.

Besides, the company, which already has more than 10,000 non-Indian nationals on its payroll, is also cutting down on the amount of work at its customer locations and move the work to other remote locations to ensure continuity for customers.

Listing out the various macro-economic risks for its businesses across the world, Tata Consultancy Service said in its annual report for 2008-09 that there has been "a rise in protectionist sentiment in many countries which are looking to impose tariff and non-tariff barriers affecting companies in the Indian IT industry."

"Some initiatives to curb mobility of IT professionals have been introduced in the US. The company is following the events closely to determine the impact, if any, on its operations," it added.

"To counter possible protectionist tendencies by other countries, the company is refining the business model to reduce the amount of work at customer locations and move work to other remote locations and hiring of more local nationals in key markets to ensure continuity for customers," TCS added.

To address these risks, TCS said, it was taking various steps such as "increasing the breadth and depth of service offerings and penetration of new customer accounts and markets to combat slowdown in some customer segments."

TCS saw the headcount of foreign national employees rising to 11,484 at the end of 2008-09, from 10,005 such employees a year ago. It incurred total overseas business expenses, towards employee allowances paid abroad, rose by about 27 per cent to Rs 4,572.28 crore in the fiscal ended March 31, 2009, from Rs 3,610.47 crore in the previous year.

Such expenses accounted for 16.44 per cent of total revenues in 2008-09, up from 15.96 per cent in the previous year. The company boasts of employees of 67 nationalities in its over 1,43,000-strong workforce. Recently, two other major Indian IT exporters , Infosys and Wipro, have also warned of possible adverse impact on their businesses due to the visa restrictions and other protectionist measures in the US.
Rather that hiring USC or GC holder because they have to hire locals, these companies are hiring cause they get people for less $'s. With the slow economy and more and more people on lookout for opportunity, even USC / GC holders sometimes compromise on the $$$ just to be employed and take care of the family. An ex-colleague / friend joined a S/w Vendor 2 years back and was working on an assignment on site for a client in bay area, and TCS was chose to replace the current vendor, TCS offered my friend to stay, but would cut his pay by 30+ % and luckily my friend was able to find other work and moved. He had his GC and no issue with status.

Among the foreign companies, TCS is one of the company that does not pay well or at par with market. Also, in this market people with AOS have to maintain status and many with EAD / AC21 has now started joining these companies here. Cognizant seems to be reasonable with pay as I know people there. Other companies have no idea...

The article more emphasis on work being off-shored than hiring locals.
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